Small Italian bikes

72Combat · Feb 1, 2014

After 18 month on again off again got Guzzi Monza running and took it for a ride.

Arrived as running but with no drive, turned out to be no final drive internals.
Thanks to net that was sorted and came with better shaft.
Next thing was the 32 mm forks were rooted, so tracked down a set of 35mm Le Mans ones, mate got rid of the cup and cone bearings and now has taper ( with adjustment).
Just fitted new coils and a Dyna ignition, runs nice.
Went for 20 spin around back streets and its a nice ride.

acotrel · Feb 2, 2014

The modern Moto Guzzis are great classic bikes. A few years ago I was offered a 750cc road racer for $3000 which had been imported from America . Somebody had been killed while racing it. I was uncertain about the torque reaction from the motor so I did not buy it. The modern 1200cc sports Moto Guzzi looks really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDbc4yLSfPk

Rohan · Feb 2, 2014

acotrel said:
. I was uncertain about the torque reaction from the motor so I did not buy it.

This reminds of BM racers in the 1930s complaining about the 'torque reaction'.
BM quietly built one racer arranged so everything spun the other way.
Not one rider picked it.

A modern slipper clutch would reduce the risk of the rear wheel locking up on downshifts, if the revs aren't corodinated too well.
Same as other SBK and MotoGP etc bikes have, for the same risk...

72Combat · Feb 3, 2014

This reminds of BM racers in the 1930s complaining about the 'torque reaction'.
BM quietly built one racer arranged so everything spun the other way.
Not one rider picked it.

A modern slipper clutch would reduce the risk of the rear wheel locking up on downshifts, if the revs aren't corodinated too well.
Same as other SBK and MotoGP etc bikes have, for the same risk...[/quote]

So BMW made up a special cam, final drive just to disprove the " only at standstill' of BMW torque reaction - yeah right.

I've had the back wheel lock on change to 2nd , but you can feather the clutch for that, 50 HP BMW is hardly MotoGP, but not sure it has any relevancy between and chain and shaft drive. I took the shock absorber out of my shaft.

72Combat · Feb 3, 2014

acotrel said:
The modern Moto Guzzis are great classic bikes. A few years ago I was offered a 750cc road racer for $3000 which had been imported from America . Somebody had been killed while racing it. I was uncertain about the torque reaction from the motor so I did not buy it. The modern 1200cc sports Moto Guzzi looks really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDbc4yLSfPk

Let me clear that up, other than at standstill there is really no torque reaction as one moving the wheels cancel it out.

It would be like me saying " are Ducatis easier to wheelie as the motor spins backwards" :roll:

acotrel · Feb 3, 2014

So you are telling me that if I'm cranked over coming out of a corner, and give the Guzzi the big squirt it won't move the top sideways due to the twist from the crank against the transmission, and possibly reduce ground clearance ? I suggest then I'm riding my Seeley and do that the torque reaction moves the top of the motor backwards, assisting the rear end to squat and gives more self-steering effect. The mass of the flywheel affects the handling ?
In addition, if you have a heavy gyroscope spinning, and turn the axle in a different direction to the rotation, the resultant force is at 90 degrees to the change in direction. So with the crank spinning transversely, if you change the direction of the axis, then the front of the bike will experience a rise or fall - could affect tight corner handling, by changing the steering geometry ? If you had heaps of trail you might not feel it, however on a race bike with quick steering .... ?

Rohan · Feb 3, 2014

72Combat said:
So BMW made up a special cam, final drive just to disprove the " only at standstill' of BMW torque reaction - yeah right.

Thats the story that came out in the 1930s - when BM had supercharged GP bikes that could win in the IoM TT.
You need to work on getting that quotes done cleanly...

Rohan · Feb 3, 2014

acotrel said:
So you are telling me that if I'm cranked over coming out of a corner,

You are mixing your metaphors there somewhat Alan ?
Bikes can raise or sit on their suspension, just from simple physics.
Braking or accelerating - regardless of the engines involved...

Shafties do sit up or down on their rear suspension more than chain drive versions though ?
- faster pilots will know to drag the rear brake a little while accelerating out of corners
- same as the MotoGP and SBK pilots do sometimes, if you watch closely.... ??

72Combat · Feb 3, 2014

Rohan said:
72Combat said:

So BMW made up a special cam, final drive just to disprove the " only at standstill' of BMW torque reaction - yeah right.

Click to expand...

Thats the story that came out in the 1930s - when BM had supercharged GP bikes that could win in the IoM TT.
You need to work on getting that quotes done cleanly...

I didn't quote you earlier, I have this time :mrgreen:

Any reference to this story as being a keen BMW man I'd like to know?

Rohan · Feb 3, 2014

You did quote me earlier - my entire lines are repeated in your post !
Thought I was reading an echo.....

Dunno where that quote is, would have to search for it.
Maybe its a quote from a quote from a quote from someone who doesn't know where he heard it though...

GRM 450 · Feb 3, 2014

Small Italians

72Combat · Feb 3, 2014

GRM 450 said:
Small Italian

big price tags.http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbi ... 452246.htm
although I gather this is cheap by AU standards.

daveh · Feb 3, 2014

Graeme - great shots. And the thread is back on topic!

Australia is probably the only country where one might see that many functional Desmo singles all out for a ride.

For those unfamiliar with them, very small numbers of those particular yellow / orange cafe racers were made, in the high hundreds for each of three capacities (250, 350 and 450), if that data source is correct. So they are now rare and sought after. I don't know how many Silver Shotguns were made - anyone? Mine is the only late model Desmo I have seen on the road here, although I know of one or two in sheds. I expect I will see the occasional trailer queen behind some roped-off enclosure at a show...

Dave

acotrel · Feb 5, 2014

My friend has a silver shotgun 450 in his back shed quietly rusting awa, He says he is going to rebuild it one day, however I think the stuffed cam bearing tunnel in the head turns him off a bit. You might enjoy this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZdorNKfBQ

xbacksideslider · Feb 5, 2014

Sweet, thanks for the pics GRM450

Rohan · Feb 5, 2014

daveh said:
Graeme - great shots. And the thread is back on topic!
Australia is probably the only country where one might see that many functional Desmo singles all out for a ride.

I can recall, faintly, a line up somewhat like that outside Frasers in Ashfield when they would have been new.
I was put off by the uncomfortable looking riding position, and didn't even consider one. Silly me !?
They must have been slightly earlier models, I recall though they had drum brakes.

Small Guzzis and shaft drive are somewhat on topic, we thinks ?

72Combat · Feb 5, 2014

Gave off topic Monza a carb clean and took it out for another ride, runs nice, get some new tyres tomorrow and ready for over the pits.
Worth bugger all but looks like its gonna be a run ride.

daveh · Feb 5, 2014

Small Guzzis and shaft drive are somewhat on topic, we thinks ?

Yes, but not 750cc and 1200cc Guzzis.

acotrel said:
The modern Moto Guzzis are great classic bikes. A few years ago I was offered a 750cc road racer for $3000 which had been imported from America . Somebody had been killed while racing it. I was uncertain about the torque reaction from the motor so I did not buy it. The modern 1200cc sports Moto Guzzi looks really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDbc4yLSfPk

GRM 450 · Feb 5, 2014

Monza is 500cc and Italian, so to me it's small and Italian.

Nice bikes too, a mate raced one in the 80's.

The rest of the world didn't want the Shotguns or yellow bikes but they found buyers in Australia, which was good for us down under. :mrgreen:

The yellow drum brake bikes were '73 and the discs were '74. (the disc brake was like the Commando brake and needed the master sleeved down)

some more,,,, (from previous moto giro's in Oz) (not the last one)

acotrel · Feb 7, 2014

The Aermachhi Ala D' Oro was excellent, however too little too late - the two strokes killed it. I looked at that photo of that street bike above, and remembered seeing them in a dealer's workshop - we wouldn't buy them, we all wanted big Triumphs and Nortons - how stupid ? I think the kids still have that 'bigger is better' mentality today - caused by too many freeways and other long straight roads. A blast is fun, however never as good as really fanging a good handling bike around really tight twisty roads. Pity there are so few jobs in Tasmania - that is the ultimate heaven for motorcyclists. A,B and C - the first two are apples and beer.

Small Italian bikes

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