Recommendations for a replacement battery for a 961

Stu Bodycote said:

This is the model and supplier to Norton, just to keep in mind the information given.

Honda NHX110, CBR125, NSR125, VT125C, XL125V, CBR250R, NX250, TRX450EX (Quad) Regulator Rectifier - RR58

IMPORTANT:Our regulator/rectifiers MUST NOT be used with Lithium-ion batteriesCLICK HERE for important information regarding battery types to use with our Regulator Rectifiers. Product Information OEM Numbers Fitting Instructions Warranty & Returns Regulator Rectifier Fits: Honda: NHX110 Lead...

www.electrexworld.co.uk

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does the 961 use an electrex pick up coil?

So, the Rec/Reg fitted to the Donington 961 should not be used with a lithium battery according to the manufacturer (of the Rec/Reg)?

We’ve discussed Lithium battery problems before, with many discounting them because we’re generally using top quality Li batteries with a dedicated BMS - have been for years. Don’t remember ever reading a direct reference to the 961 Rec/Reg like this before though. That said, their general guidance on Li batteries not being suitable for motorcycle charging systems seems like dated information.

There’s lots of info out there contradicting that stance in relation to modern Li batteries on modern machines. With some bike manufacturers like Ducati including them as standard on certain models - with their own Li charger of course.

So is this of genuine concern or a case of out-dated information, with a bit of ass-covering for good measure? I suppose the worry comes in if a bike does not have a well maintained/functioning charging system and/or a cheap substandard Li battery.

Stu Bodycote said:

This is the model and supplier to Norton, just to keep in mind the information given.

Honda NHX110, CBR125, NSR125, VT125C, XL125V, CBR250R, NX250, TRX450EX (Quad) Regulator Rectifier - RR58

IMPORTANT:Our regulator/rectifiers MUST NOT be used with Lithium-ion batteriesCLICK HERE for important information regarding battery types to use with our Regulator Rectifiers. Product Information OEM Numbers Fitting Instructions Warranty & Returns Regulator Rectifier Fits: Honda: NHX110 Lead...

www.electrexworld.co.uk

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Thanks Stu, to be honest it did cross my mind, but on the NOCO website there is no mention of the vehicle charging system itself. They do state this:



But I am also going to investigate a different Reg/Rec. I know Trispark make one specifically for Lithium batteries.

jan nelder said:

does the 961 use an electrex pick up coil?

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Yes,

CRANK POSITION SENSOR
Electrex P6-500 (500 Ohm)

jan nelder said:

does the 961 use an electrex pick up coil?

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They used to list it in their eBay shop, from memory

cliffa said:

Thanks Stu, to be honest it did cross my mind, but on the NOCO website there is no mention of the vehicle charging system itself. They do state this:

View attachment 109146

But I am also going to investigate a different Reg/Rec. I know Trispark make one specifically for Lithium batteries.

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I fitted a mosfet to

cliffa said:

Thanks Stu, to be honest it did cross my mind, but on the NOCO website there is no mention of the vehicle charging system itself. They do state this:

View attachment 109146

But I am also going to investigate a different Reg/Rec. I know Trispark make one specifically for Lithium batteries.

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I fitted a genuine Shindengen mosfet reg/rec to my Duc1098....mega easy job on that as Triumph do a patch harness that's literally plug and play on the Duc.
I think the aftermarket mosfet regs come with connectors in the kit though. The reg/rec on the V4ss was a copy of the Shindengen unit....worked fine, very stable.

Stu Bodycote said:

I fitted a mosfet to

I fitted a genuine Shindengen mosfet reg/rec to my Duc1098....mega easy job on that as Triumph do a patch harness that's literally plug and play on the Duc.
I think the aftermarket mosfet regs come with connectors in the kit though. The reg/rec on the V4ss was a copy of the Shindengen unit....worked fine, very stable.

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You do need to be very careful of the Shindengen reg/rec listed on EBay, as probably 90% are fake.

Bought mine from a breakers yard, off a one year old smashed up Triumph.

cliffa said:

Thanks Stu, to be honest it did cross my mind, but on the NOCO website there is no mention of the vehicle charging system itself. They do state this:

View attachment 109146

But I am also going to investigate a different Reg/Rec. I know Trispark make one specifically for Lithium batteries.

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The Shorai battery & BMS is similarly configured for safety/adverse events Cliff. If Stu still thinks it’s a valid concern (maybe given the ‘quirky’ technical nature of the 961?) then finding another Rec/Reg would doubtless be worthwhile. I’m ok with the mechanicals, electrics not so much. Let us know what ya find.

Ideally we identify another plug’n’play without the need for re-wiring; unlikely I realise!

Ok before everyone goes down this rabbit hole again... MOST modern charging systems are fine for today's lithium with BMS including what is on the 961. In fact, go back to some of the lithium threads and look at what I and others posted from the manufacturers. Simply put, they(the manufacture) know most people will just put these batteries in cars, bikes, seadoos etc and not think twice about the charging system.

If you are really worried about this issue, the easy way to tell if your system will handle lithium is put a meter on the battery or on the charging port and start the bike. See what the reg/rec is charging the battery at idle, then rev the bike out until the volts stop climbing, which will be hopefully not more that 14.5-14.8 with some error built in for those that are using crappy meters.

What we do prior to this test is drain the battery by leaving the high beam, turn signal and many times plugging in some boot warmers in the SAE port for the charger to get the battery down to 10.5-11. That way the reg/rec is forced to really put out the max voltage which I hope is self-evident why we do that.

Ideally, with lithium, you want to be closer to 14.25 but again 14.5 isn't going to kill you Float voltage is 13.5 so again you have to look at lithium charging individual cells, not just the whole battery. I have battle born batteries and they state to charge up to 14.6

NOCO states 14.6 is the charging voltage by the way if you look at the specification sheet

Now the best this about lithium is a fully charged battery should be over 13 volts which is great for many reasons.

There are regulators that have lower set points, like from Ricks, but again the stock regulator is fine on most modern vehicles.


I again will state we have installed hundreds of lithium batteries with ZERO issues on the installation end. The biggest issue we found was customers draining the batteries past the point of no return, which is why we like the Anti-Gravity batteries because they shut down to save themselves.

Here is the version from Ricks if anyone is worried about their system

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.co...fier-Regulator-Kit-Lithium-Compatible-14_820H

Thanks CG - good info.

We’ve been around this buoy before I guess.

Quick update.

The instruction on the NOCO said to charge it before fitting (although it was showing 13.2v) so I put it on my Optimate LIFePo4 charger, and it sat on charge for over 4 hours, never getting to the "Maintain" stage. So after CG's comment I bit the bullet, and bought a NOCO Genius 2 charger, which will charge anything. It arrived tonight, I put it on the battery and well withing one hour it was done.

Another quick update.

• The NOCO charger seems to have revived my old battery (A Skyrich HJTZ14S-FP Lithium) So perhaps try one of their chargers before replacing your battery.
• The NOCO and Skyrich are a perfect fit between the frame rails just behind the swinging arm tube, so that's where I'll be relocating it. I'll update on the methodology as it goes on, but won't be for a few weeks now.

Hi Cliffa , Will you have 2 batteries installed in parallel ?

Hi Tony, no just one, but mentioned that either would fit. Actually I should have said NOCO or Skyrich will fit.

cliffa said:

Hi Tony, no just one, but mentioned that either would fit. Actually I should have said NOCO or Skyrich will fit.

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Interesting choice Cliff. The OEM location is odd admittedly, but it only takes a couple of minutes to get the tank off; what’s the main driver for the change - safety? How are you gonna protect the battery from the elements with it situated over the swing-arm?

Stephen_Spencer said:

Interesting choice Cliff. The OEM location is odd admittedly, but it only takes a couple of minutes to get the tank off; what’s the main driver for the change - safety? How are you gonna protect the battery from the elements with it situated over the swing-arm?

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Three reason's actually Stephen. I don't really like taking the tank off, as it's a recipe for me to drop the bloody thing (especially when full), I prefer to have easier access to the battery, and I just don't feel that comfortable having it under the tank inches above a pretty hot engine. Anyway my plan is to leave the existing wiring connectors in place and mount a battery isolating switch in the space vacated by the battery, and make the two fuses more accessible. I won't make any alterations that cannot be reversed to standard. As for the elements, that area seems to keep quite clean on my bike, and I never knowingly ride on bad weather days any more.

cliffa said:

Three reason's actually Stephen. I don't really like taking the tank off, as it's a recipe for me to drop the bloody thing (especially when full), I prefer to have easier access to the battery, and I just don't feel that comfortable having it under the tank inches above a pretty hot engine. Anyway my plan is to leave the existing wiring connectors in place and mount a battery isolating switch in the space vacated by the battery, and make the two fuses more accessible. I won't make any alterations that cannot be reversed to standard. As for the elements, that area seems to keep quite clean on my bike, and I never knowingly ride on bad weather days any more.

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Actually 4 reasons - I just cannot leave things alone. My wife calls it "Titting around"

cliffa said:

Actually 4 reasons - I just cannot leave things alone. My wife calls it "Titting around"

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Ah ‘titting around’ - suffer from that myself! I think you can get medication for it!

Have’nt had to get at the battery for a couple of years but will be keeping a closer eye on it with the ally tank fitted. Easy access to the battery would be a bonus if ya can protect it (and it does’nt look too fugley) - a rear hugger extension might be a good idea, you know, whilst you’re titting around!!