Purity of design...

desmo said:
the only ones that went well were the tuned ones eg george browns sprinters , or the specialy tuned ones given to the press , all im saying is the fabled vincent is not what its cracked up to be for sure

good luck with the grey flash john surtees,raced one

when my mate Ian Wardrope gets his Sid mullarney 4 valve manx engine finished i think it will be unbeatable

and it will be eligible in classic races too
Click to expand...


I've done 100,000 kms of two up touring on my 47 Vincent since 2003. Most of that has been in the mountains, where you really need a bike with grunt.
It has outlived 4 previous owners on 3 Continents. All were keen riders so the bike has done several hundred thousand miles in all.
Imagine touring 2 up for 100,000 kms on a rattly old International or any other bike from the 1940s .

We can get on the bike and head for Southern California tomorrow ( 3000 mile round trip) without issue. That's the strongest point about the Vincent, the reliability it is capable of.
I say capable because they are a complex engine to rebuild and some are done poorly.
But there is really no point in trying to convince a non-owner who feels he knows the straight goods on the brand.

Glen
 
Desmo

your friend might just run into a problem getting his 4 valve Mullarney replica accepted, because the regs state that if only one original ever existed, then that is the only one that will be allowed to compete, and the original Mullarney 4 valver is owned by Bob Newby.
It could no doubt race in the I.O.M races, provided the organisers will accept the machine, but not the CMRC club events, nor BHR either, so the other option might be to pop over to the Continent.

I know this ruling is regarded as a load of rubbish by many people, myself in particular, but unfortunately CMRC committee members seem to pursue their own programs regardless of what many members would like.

Some few years back I was very interested in producing a QUB500 replica, and this was what we were met with when we enquired as to such a machines acceptability.

This has departed somewhat from Fast Eddies original post, for which I apologise, but to return to it I would say that of all Vincents ever produced, either originals or replica's, Patrick Godet's Grey Flash racer was a work of art.
His Egli Comet runs the Grey Flash a very close second, and for those who have seen the latter raced by Ian Sinclair, on a good day he would run right up at the front with all the SOHC and DOHC machines.
Sadly, with Patrick now gone, his racers look set to become highly priced and highly prized collectors pieces.
 
desmo said:
the only ones that went well were the tuned ones eg george browns sprinters , or the specialy tuned ones given to the press , all im saying is the fabled vincent is not what its cracked up to be for sure

good luck with the grey flash john surtees,raced one

when my mate Ian Wardrope gets his Sid mullarney 4 valve manx engine finished i think it will be unbeatable

and it will be eligible in classic races too
Click to expand...

I believe John’s Comet is at Barber. Anyone care to speculate on what clutch this is?

Purity of design...
 
Snotzo, no need to apologise, it’s all related !

Godet Motorcycles are still producing both the Grey Flash Egli and the Grey Flash replica. They also seem to be wanting to continue development as they have new heads and pistons in the pipeline, although, whether these ideas are actually new, or Patrick’s legacy, I do not know.

I think the future viability of these bikes will be decided by the market. Prices of both versions of 500 race bikes have risen massively since Patrick’s passing. Basically, Patrick was prepared to sell the bikes at a loss in order to get them on the grid. Rightly or wrongly, they are no longer prepared to do that.

Therefore, the 500 race bikes are now very expensive when compared to a top spec new cammy racer. So, it would require a team whereby both owner and rider were more dedicated to the Vincent brand, and the idea / challenge of racing a Vincent, than pure racing per se.

Hopefully, such teams exist. Sadly I am neither rich enough to be a team owner or fast enough to be such a rider...!
 
It seems impossible to me but is that an Enfield clutch in the pix you posted? (swoosh post)
 
desmo said:
the only ones that went well were the tuned ones eg george browns sprinters , or the specialy tuned ones given to the press , all im saying is the fabled vincent is not what its cracked up to be for sure

good luck with the grey flash john surtees,raced one

when my mate Ian Wardrope gets his Sid mullarney 4 valve manx engine finished i think it will be unbeatable

and it will be eligible in classic races too
Click to expand...
Obviously you seems to know what you are talking about!
Cheers.
 
In 2003 I was in Mas du Clos/F for a ton-up meeting. They were racing in three classes, I had entered the medium class. There I followed 3 Godet twins and was surprised at their speed - not very quick with their 1200cc so I overtook them with my homebrewed 1948 HRD 1000/ spinetype frame. Later the 3 guys came to my van and asked if I run 1500cc or at least alcohol to be that fast. I overtook all three on the straight and repeated that maybe 15 minutes later again ;-). They did not believe my answer that it still is 1000cc and ordinary petrol in the tank but most Vincent parts internally replaced by my own stuff because I had other ideas which obviously seemed to work. After that first session the marshalls decided I belong into the fastest class.
There I met a guy from Netherlands with one of famous Ian Hamiltons race engines (1272cc) in his Egli - he could not follow my bike either and tried to tell me that he has the wrong mainjets fitted. But the most fun on that track I had with the 750 featherbed racer of my wife - it was so much easier handling and in the slipstream of the big Miles Tridents I was able to keep their speed. My HRD had a weight of 168 kg, the Norton has 148 - so on a track I would always prefer a Norton twin. I sold my homebrewed special as I had the constant fear when going really fast that it might break a rod - thereby destroying most of the engine.
Of course I had developed my own clutch for the Vincent, half the weight and working perfect.
Happy days!!!
 
WEAL Norton said:
In 2003 I was in Mas du Clos/F for a ton-up meeting. They were racing in three classes, I had entered the medium class. There I followed 3 Godet twins and was surprised at their speed - not very quick with their 1200cc so I overtook them with my homebrewed 1948 HRD 1000/ spinetype frame. Later the 3 guys came to my van and asked if I run 1500cc or at least alcohol to be that fast. I overtook all three on the straight and repeated that maybe 15 minutes later again ;-). They did not believe my answer that it still is 1000cc and ordinary petrol in the tank but most Vincent parts internally replaced by my own stuff because I had other ideas which obviously seemed to work. After that first session the marshalls decided I belong into the fastest class.
There I met a guy from Netherlands with one of famous Ian Hamiltons race engines (1272cc) in his Egli - he could not follow my bike either and tried to tell me that he has the wrong mainjets fitted. But the most fun on that track I had with the 750 featherbed racer of my wife - it was so much easier handling and in the slipstream of the big Miles Tridents I was able to keep their speed. My HRD had a weight of 168 kg, the Norton has 148 - so on a track I would always prefer a Norton twin. I sold my homebrewed special as I had the constant fear when going really fast that it might break a rod - thereby destroying most of the engine.
Of course I had developed my own clutch for the Vincent, half the weight and working perfect.
Happy days!!!
Click to expand...

as i said before a good 750 commando
is a weapon . and glad you replaced that
vincent clutch, your one of the few that can recognise junk
 
I've got Rapide with a Vee Two clutch, the other with the stock clutch, rebuilt by John McDougall. Zero problems with either.


Glen
 
Last edited:
desmo said:
as i said before a good 750 commando
is a weapon . and glad you replaced that
vincent clutch, your one of the few that can recognise junk
Click to expand...
I have a Vincent clutch in my Norvin and it works great and I can't see any reason to replace it.
This machine eats my mate's 920 Commando with ease.
Why do you hate the Vincent so much as obviously you never rode one?
 
desmo said:
as i said before a good 750 commando
is a weapon . and glad you replaced that
vincent clutch, your one of the few that can recognise junk
Click to expand...

One must to realize that the design of the Vincent clutch was necessary due to the fact the the clutches (and gearboxes) available in the 1930's could not reliably transmit the amount of power generated by the Series A twin. The servo design solved the problem in the Series B and resulted in a clutch that did the job with relatively light springs. I ran mine for years, but could never completely keep the oil out of it. I am now running one of John Healy's wet/dry plate clutches with good results. The only downside is it takes about twice the amount of grip to disengage it.

~998cc
 
When the stock clutch is set up correctly and all the worn out 70 year old parts have been replaced, it's a sweet clutch.
I had some troubles with the V3 at first. It was very grabby. Finally I switched the sintered bronze dry plates for wet kevlar Barnett plates, added a cover gasket and some ATF.
Now it is nearly as nice as the stock clutch.

Glen
 
Absolutely Glen.

In its day the Vincent clutch was a marvel and NOTHING could match its low lever pressure to clutch grip ratio.

I think that a lot of criticism aimed at Vincent’s forgets just how old they are.

On my Rapide, the biggest headache, in fact the ONLY headache was the clutch... an aftermarket modern mulitplate ‘uprade’...
 
Fast Eddie said:
Absolutely Glen.

In its day the Vincent clutch was a marvel and NOTHING could match its low lever pressure to clutch grip ratio.
...
Click to expand...

Agreed it was a marvel of engineering and ingenious for its time. After initial setup in 1981, my first experience with the clutch was mixed. Careful adjustment of the plungers helped immensely, and it performed very well until eventually oiling up.

PCV admitted the firm fell back on bodges during production, presumably due to necessary economics. I tried various C18 seals, O-rings, Teflon tape etc. and finally settled for reliability in this recent build--hence the wet/dry plate clutch. I would consider going back to the stock clutch if the oil problem could be resolved.

Russ
998cc
 
998cc said:
One must to realize that the design of the Vincent clutch was necessary due to the fact the the clutches (and gearboxes) available in the 1930's could not reliably transmit the amount of power generated by the Series A twin. The servo design solved the problem in the Series B and resulted in a clutch that did the job with relatively light springs. I ran mine for years, but could never completely keep the oil out of it. I am now running one of John Healy's wet/dry plate clutches with good results. The only downside is it takes about twice the amount of grip to disengage it.

~998cc
Click to expand...

iirc the gearbox was very similar to the boxes used on Panthers only the mainshaft was slightly different
 

I don't think it bears any resemblance to a Panther gear box at all.
The gearbox on the Vincent twin went away in 1946 with advent of the Series B twins. They instead used an entirely new design powerplant/drive with a unit construction crankcase /transmission housing. Irving also designed an all new very heavy duty 4 speed cluster to go in the rear housing.
Some refer to the gears as " built for a truck",or lorry ,if in the UK.
It is a very strong setup, good for lots of torque and an extremely long life.
The all in one crankcase housing was also built with a lot of strength so that it could be used as a stressed member, doing away with frame tubes.
Just like Ducati did with their revolutionary Panigale 1299 about 70 years later.

Glen
 
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