project

Im not sure where the idea that stainless easily cracks came fom but it is the other way round. Most production frames are made from mild steel. It is much more prone to flex cracking or vibration cracking than 308 ss, tho it rarely causes problems in this way. Some high end frames are made from thinner wall chrome moly (manx). These frames are more prone to cracking than their mild steel brethren but still manageable.

With Stainless, vibration or flex cracking is a non issue.

Manx frames were actually 531 (manganese molybdenum steel) but we take your point.

Stainless exhausts, which are a different kettle of fish, are prone to cracking. Heat, vibration, different alloy and thin sections being a different scenario...

That is shaping up as one handsome beast.

What are the elongation and UTS numbers of the tubing you have used in comparison to something like Reynolds 631?

What a work of art, I love the welding :mrgreen:

Here's a chart for reynolds steels http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pd ... xtract.pdf
and here's one for 308 stainless http://www.kadindia.com/chemical_composition.html

Have a very happy Christmas

Webby

I love it.

Excellent work, and documentary.

thanks for all the nice comments, it really helps to get the motivation going again. I did most of the work in Feb and March of this year and then let the project sit until yesterday, now it is back on the lift.

I have gathered together most of the engine parts over the year tho. That required a fair bit of cash, so I needed a few months time to do some paying work.

The top end is here and crank cases are on the way. I have everything for the timing chest plus I have the stroker crank. Still need the transmission cluster from Surtees/Quaife and a host of other bits, so I will need to do some more paying work before ordering those items.

The engine is going to be expensive any way it is done so I thought I would push the hotrod envelope about as far as I can.
Displacement is 1360cc, heads are some very hot heads developed by Terry Prince with some cross pollination from Steve Hamel and his Bonneville speed adventures. Steve used a set of Terry's modified heads for his Bonneville bike then modified those for more power. Terry then incorporated Steve's info into these heads and added some of his own design.

It is a bathtub shaped combustion chamber with Squish band and D shaped exhaust ports. Compression will be around 10.5 to one, forged Carillo pistons. Inlet ports are 38 mm as opposed to 28 mm for a Standard Vincent.

The cams are pretty boxy looking. These are Terry's own Mk 5 design. The design came from his Godson, Fritz Egli Jr, an engineer on the Mercedes Formula one team. Terry gace Fritz the weight, dimensions and geometry of the Vincent Valve train. Fritz then plugged those numbers into the Mercedes Formula one Cam development program and came up with what is supposed to be the optimum profile for that engine, mid range to top end. They don't look anything like any other Vincent cam I've seen Race or standard.

It should be interesting!

Glen

It's nice to have connections. I'm sure there will be a stacked queue of salivating motorcycle enthusiasts waiting to see more photos and hear more interesting details.

Hello Glen, nice project. Do you use any of the Horner brothers bits? Graeme

Notta the Bad , Eh . By jove .

No nothing from Horner bros. I contacted them early on but they were unwilling to sell me anything. Also, I contacted Patrick Godet, builder of the $100,000 plus Godet Eglis. He was quite willing to sell me crankcases and covers as well as his new electric starter with bendix, but when it came down to it he reneged on this.
Initially just told him I was building a Vincent special but when I sent him photos of it along with info on the other components to be used, he suddenly decided that his "technology is for my customers only"

I guess purchasing nearly 10K worth of cases and covers does not make you a customer in his world!

Perhaps if I was willing to buy one of his complete 1330 motors he might have been more willing to help out.

I didn't want that tho, I really wanted the Terry Prince heads and all of his other race bits especially those new cams and the radiused followers that go with them.

It was a set of Prince heads that Horners used on their first 1300 cc racer. Since then they have made their own stuff, but I'll bet it doesn't stray far from Terry's design.

The cases are coming from Andy Molnar , the Manx engine builder. He has done quite a number of these and Terry tells me the quality is extremely good. Price is considerably less than what Godet would have charged, had I been permitted access to his technology.

In the end it seems to have all worked out OK.

Next up was to make the rear sets.

I did the shifter side first;

Footpeg is off a GSXR, the rest is homebrew stuff

after the shifter side rearset I decided to tackle some metal shaping.

I had made some enquires for custom alloy fenders but had no luck. I'm sure there is someone out there who will do them but the companies I tred all had set patterns they were doing and the radius was not right for these wheels. Most of the outfits making alloy fenders are doing so for the classic market, so these are for a little bigger and narrower wheels.

One outfit would do any radius (hand beaten) but wouldn't do the 9" wide rear fender, they said that was too wide to do in handbeaten alloy.

So I thought I would purchase an English wheel and see if I could make my own fenders.

My first thought was to buy one of the inexpensive Chinese wheels that are available at places like Northern Tool. I did some reading on the website MetalMeet.com and the consensus there was to avoid the Chinese Ewheels, the frames are just too flimsy. They had a frame design there which is said to be 6 times as stiff as the import wheels of the same size.

There is a regular on that site who Markets these sturdy Ewheels, but the cost is about 3K. A bit much for a someone who wants to build a couple of fenders and maybe a gas tank.

So I set about making one following all of the advice on the site. I think I ended up with a wheel that is overkill, but it does work very well.

Here are some photos of the construction. I have lots more if anyone is interested in building one. Total Cost was about $300 including the wheels which are high quality US made items I got off ebay.



took 2 passes with the pedal floored (200 amps) to fill up the v groove. Material is 3/8 wall 3" x 5" tubing




anvil holder pieces milled up ready for welding



finished annvil holder




adjuster done



finished ewheel

worntorn said:

I have lots more if anyone is interested in building one.

Click to expand...

Post as many pictures as you got. Hell, your welds are pure porn, let alone the stuff you create.

I am interested in building a wheel like that. Any info or plans would be great.

bwolfie, the site metalmeet.com has all the info need. They have a basic plan there that has been shown to be the best overall design. It has a removeable tool arm so that you can fabricate a different shape of tool arm and bolt it on should the need ever arise.

I went with the removeable tool arm but also made the anvil holder and top wheel bracket indexable at 90 degrees. This allows you to quickly change things such that you can use the ewheel either across the tool or or in line with it. With the indexed wheels , the basic tool arm should fit almost any item to be shaped.

If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.

Glen

so I started by making some fenders for acouple of ossa Mars that I restod last year. There are aftermarket fenders available for them ,but at $400 per set for something that might fall off the bike (originals were terrible) in no time, I went for plastic instead. It seemed like a good idea to now replace those plastic ones with some alloy jobs. This gave me something real to practice on.

For these I used al alloy 5052 which is very similar to the original Birmabright fenders that Vincents were equipped with. The original Birmabright guards are still in use on many Vincents and seem nearly indestructable, so hopefully this 5052 will be as good.

I read on a Landrover Resto site that 5052 is used to repair older Aluminum Landrover bodies, which also were made from Birmabright. They claim it is even more resistant to vibration cracking than Birmabright is.

The starting point is all hammer work and the result looks like total destruction of the blank:





The fenders for the dirt bikes turned out so so but some skill did develop.

Here is the fender for the front of the Egli.

"So-So"???

Dang.

Better than most.

Thanks Paul

Looking back at my last post I see it is a bit confusing. I'm talking about Ossa fenders but have put up photos of the Egli front fender. It actually turned out OK.

The Ossa fenders were abit rough here and there ,but decent enough for a dirt bike that sees rough use.

Here is the first set done and mounted:




After the front fender I got busy making up the brake side rear set. I had the set from the GSXR that came with the rear wheel . For a long time I looked at trying to somehow convert it to work on the egli, but with the reverse handing it was a no go. In the end I mounted the hydraulics onto a new piece and milled a brake pedal which looks just like the shifter I made for the other side. Both look much like an original Vincent Gear lever with the adjustment holes for the peg. Vincent loved to make everything adjustable, which makes them a really comfortable bike to ride.

There are lots of raw edges here to file smooth and the whole thing needs polishing, but I have decided to leave the polishing to the last. I think I need to keep at this thing and get it roadable, then worry about the polishing later.




Next I started in on the wide rear fender. This was much wider and a heavier guage than the other fenders. It presented a problem.
With the other fenders, the radius or wheel curvature would start to show up as the hammering was done to form the crown.
As the crown is pounded in, the raidus of the wheel curve gets too tight and has to be manhandled back to the correct curvature.

With the wider heavier materieal, the crown was forming but very little wheel curve was happening. This is because the normal practice is to start forming the crown from the fender centre, which forms tucks or pleats at the edges. It works great up to about a 6" width. At nine inches wide with thick material, the outside edges do not form tucks when the centre is pounded into a crown. The answer came from one of the regulars on the Metalmeet site.

With the wide fender it is necessary to start the crown forming at the outside edges rather than in the centre. Then the tucks form quite nicely and the fender wheel curvature shows up. The tucks get smoothened by use of a dolly and leather faced slapper, then finally the english wheel.

Here is the completed rear fender, laying loose on the rear wheel. I see that I need to tweak that left side just a bit, so I guess it is not quite complete yet!

Post as many pictures as you got. Hell, your welds are pure porn, let alone the stuff you create.

Click to expand...

I've got to make rear sets for Ms Peel special so especially interested in how you've done it. I've a plastic front fender but no room for a curved fender on rear so its flat sheet city hack saw level for me.

Just sensational work Worntorn, I think I've read this entire thread half a dozen times so far - keep it coming!