product endorsement

City Garage · Sep 29, 2022

seattle##gs said:
As I said, it works. $100 is cheap for that. And I will mention it again, A pair of Denso IW22 - 5307 iridium plugs will make a noticeable improvement.

Jim Schmidt is the guy to ask if there is a benefit. We tried them and dyno'd them with no difference. Slight throttle increase response but to be fair all our heads get ported anyways and Nortons already have a good smooth port for air flow. I know some of our offroad customers swear by them

City Garage · Sep 29, 2022

baz said:
My popcorn is ready!

but now its tis but a flesh wound!!

TomU · Sep 29, 2022

City Garage said:
That's great you have experience with them! How many have you installed? Did you use the deep bowls? What meter do you use? Do you have a collection of headers with bungs for testing like we do? Did you use high-flow petcocks or did stock work? It would be awesome if you could share your experiences so I can compare them to what we have experienced at the shop as with our latest Bonneville Speedway bike we have installed a dozen of them in the last couple of years but maybe you have some better insight that could help us. I would think if you have installed many of these, you would know they can be set and forget and many are but we purpose adjust for what we build for here at the shop. As I'm sure you know for bikes that typically run at sea level-3000 it makes it a breeze to rejet for high altitudes on the fly. No meter needed when you can jet up to the proper main by a dial.

Here is an excerpt from an article written about them. and just a reminder about what I said "but we do use a Innovate meter" but really spark color has gotten close enough for most.

You could actually install it, set it and forget it, just like your plain old main jets, and still benefit from the improved performance of having more accurate fuel delivery across the board. But those who do pay attention to their exhaust gas temps, spark plug color and piston wash are going to benefit the most as they will be able to keep this edge all of the time, quicker and easier than ever before.

Look forward to your responses!!

All of the is irrelevant if you don't use them for their intended purpose. Seems like you don't know how to tune carbs and are using this devise to compensate

seattle##gs · Oct 3, 2022

baz said:
My popcorn is ready!

I have installed two torque wings, mine and a friends...one Atlas and one 850. The great thing about the torque wing is that you simply install it and forget about it. This is good for in town or freeways. The starting and idle remain unchanged. Once underway you can feel an immediate improvement on acceleration. It is a very clever idea and it really works. The gain is stronger if the throttle is snapped open rather than easing it on.
I have used the UFO and really liked it but it is not so practical in city traffic...much better suited for open road. The Atlas mufflers are much more restrictive than a Commando so I ran a 1.5" hole saw through the baffle plate to open it up. With the baffle plate I could not get past 5100 rpm, have not tried it since drilling the baffle plate. Very good idea and I recommend that to anyone using the Atlas style mufflers. Now I can reinstall the UFO and begin to tune for it. I usually run a 37.5 pilot...with the UFO I had to reduce it to 17.5 and I still had little control with the air screw. Thunder Products told me to reduce the needle jet from the usual P-0 to a O-8. I have some experimenting to do before I can recommend the UFO. You need to be a tinkerer before going down that road.
I recently installed a dial-a-jet but could not come to any conclusion. It requires open road and I live in a city, a poor place to test carburation.
Your Bonneville bike is in a whole other world when it comes to fuel requirements. I don't think the deep float bowl is necessary for street riding. I always run Commandos with both petcocks open so there should be no fuel supply problem.
A friend is building an 850 Norton for Bonneville next year, I've given him a lot of parts..frame, swing arm, cases, crank, talked him into a pair of 34 Mikunis, etc. If you've run your bike at Bonneville I'm sure you would have a number of good ideas...for starters..what is your jetting?
Yes I have pipes welded with bungs and an Innovate AFR gauge.

baz · Oct 3, 2022

seattle##gs said:
I have installed two torque wings, mine and a friends...one Atlas and one 850. The great thing about the torque wing is that you simply install it and forget about it. This is good for in town or freeways. The starting and idle remain unchanged. Once underway you can feel an immediate improvement on acceleration. It is a very clever idea and it really works. The gain is stronger if the throttle is snapped open rather than easing it on.
I have used the UFO and really liked it but it is not so practical in city traffic...much better suited for open road. The Atlas mufflers are much more restrictive than a Commando so I ran a 1.5" hole saw through the baffle plate to open it up. With the baffle plate I could not get past 5100 rpm, have not tried it since drilling the baffle plate. Very good idea and I recommend that to anyone using the Atlas style mufflers. Now I can reinstall the UFO and begin to tune for it. I usually run a 37.5 pilot...with the UFO I had to reduce it to 17.5 and I still had little control with the air screw. Thunder Products told me to reduce the needle jet from the usual P-0 to a O-8. I have some experimenting to do before I can recommend the UFO. You need to be a tinkerer before going down that road.
I recently installed a dial-a-jet but could not come to any conclusion. It requires open road and I live in a city, a poor place to test carburation.
Your Bonneville bike is in a whole other world when it comes to fuel requirements. I don't think the deep float bowl is necessary for street riding. I always run Commandos with both petcocks open so there should be no fuel supply problem.
A friend is building an 850 Norton for Bonneville next year, I've given him a lot of parts..frame, swing arm, cases, crank, talked him into a pair of 34 Mikunis, etc. If you've run your bike at Bonneville I'm sure you would have a number of good ideas...for starters..what is your jetting?
Yes I have pipes welded with bungs and an Innovate AFR gauge.

Not sure if you are addressing me or not? But I don't have a dog in this fight

Schwany · Oct 3, 2022

I wonder if the minor improvement in acceleration is because the wing richens up the mixture a little due to the space it take up in the carburetor bore. That and the placebo effect of adding performance parts. Just a guess of course.

Seems to me they came up with this for off road big bore singles that tend to cough and hesitate (or used to back in the 1990's) when the throttle is whacked wide open at low RPM. Hard to tune out without a pumper carburetor, and even then, it takes time to dial in. Maybe this would shorten the tuning phase.

If it feels like it is working well, that is all that counts.

City Garage · Oct 3, 2022

baz said:
Not sure if you are addressing me or not? But I don't have a dog in this fight

I think he missed that my post was directed to someone else.

seattle##gs · Oct 3, 2022

baz said:
Not sure if you are addressing me or not? But I don't have a dog in this fight

A) there is no fight
B) I meant to address City Garage but for some unknown reason it gave me your name, could not figure out how to solve the minor problem.

baz · Oct 3, 2022

seattle##gs said:
A) there is no fight
B) I meant to address City Garage but for some unknown reason it gave me your name, could not figure out how to solve the minor problem.

Ok no worries
I gave up on mikuni VMs a long time ago when I changed to a big TM on my commando
I use a Koso narrow band gas analyser
I welded the bung in the left hand downpipe within 200mm of the exhaust valve
Cheers

Alan L · Oct 3, 2022

Hi all,
Like so many medical cures, superfoods and supplement that people swear by, the value of products like this are very hard to prove or disprove.
The problem is that us humans are very poor at objectively comparing improvement, either in our health or the performance of our machines. Suffice to say that when various miracles cures or Wonder products are tested under rigorous scientific ‘double blind’ conditions, they often don’t live up to their claims. The action of placebo medications being proof that we tend to get the result that we are expecting.
The key to a good miracle product is it must combine an easily understandable element with just enough vagueness to maintain a certain mystique. As for the UFO product in question, they may indeed do all that is claimed of it but the question has to be asked, why didn’t the manufacturer of the original carburettor incorporate the device into the original design. It is probably trite to say they just didn’t think of it, obviously over the last 120 years massive research has gone into airflow and carburettor design.
When presented with the little drawing of air flow through the throat of a carby showing the turbulence created it looks so simple but do we really believe that the manufacturers hadn’t thought of that.
Now don’t get me wrong, I know that much of car and bike design is driven by cost and simplicity. Our Amal carbs are examples of cheap, poorly designed items that could easily be have been improved with a little less complacency, a little more effort and a slight increase in cost. So it is possible that UFO is onto a good thing.
So, to be balanced I guess my advice is by all means buy the stuff but keep an objective open mind as to their worth.
Alan

product endorsement

City Garage

City Garage

TomU

1972 Roadster

seattle##gs

baz

Schwany

City Garage

seattle##gs

baz

Alan L

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