P11 Gearbox, clutch, kickstart, sprocket

Reassembled the gear section, tried to follow OldBritts nice article, but it did not fit my needs on this gearbox.
Critical photos and information missing from the article and after you fettle with the parts, it becomes obvious good mechanical sense best prevails.
Assemble with end cover showed about .060" kick start shaft clearance or end play......but I had not tightened cover with nuts.
Now awaiting shims to be delivered.
Photo taken after end cover removed, clearance taken with end cover in place.

Hi P400

Hmmn, shouldn't the kickstart pawl be inside the gear before measuring for end play?

Happy Holidaze, one and all.

C-ya, Jer

p400 said:

Reassembled the gear section, tried to follow OldBritts nice article, but it did not fit my needs on this gearbox.
Critical photos and information missing from the article and after you fettle with the parts, it becomes obvious good mechanical sense best prevails.
Assemble with end cover showed about .060" kick start shaft clearance or end play......but I had not tightened cover with nuts.
Now awaiting shims to be delivered.
Photo taken after end cover removed, clearance taken with end cover in place.

Click to expand...

jerrykap said:

Hi P400

Hmmn, shouldn't the kickstart pawl be inside the gear before measuring for end play?

Happy Holidaze, one and all.

C-ya, Jer

p400 said:

Reassembled the gear section, tried to follow OldBritts nice article, but it did not fit my needs on this gearbox.
Critical photos and information missing from the article and after you fettle with the parts, it becomes obvious good mechanical sense best prevails.
Assemble with end cover showed about .060" kick start shaft clearance or end play......but I had not tightened cover with nuts.
Now awaiting shims to be delivered.
Photo taken after end cover removed, clearance taken with end cover in place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jer
It is all the way down. The pawl does not drop down all the way for full engagement and only a partial section actually engages the gear. The pawl section that is proud is what engages the tabs riveted to the gearbox inner cover assembly casting. These tabs disengages the pawl from the gear 1: when the spring returns the kick start to its home position and 2: when the kick lever goes to its full stroke. Otherwise the pawl would be ratcheting when the gear is rotating the moment you take it out of neutral.
Cheers,
Tom
CNN

jerrykap said:

Hi P400,Hmmn, shouldn't the kickstart pawl be inside the gear before measuring for end play? Happy Holidaze, one and all. C-ya, Jer

p400 said:

Reassembled the gear section, tried to follow OldBritts nice article, but it did not fit my needs on this gearbox.
Critical photos and information missing from the article and after you fettle with the parts, it becomes obvious good mechanical sense best prevails.
Assemble with end cover showed about .060" kick start shaft clearance or end play......but I had not tightened cover with nuts.
Now awaiting shims to be delivered.
Photo taken after end cover removed, clearance taken with end cover in place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It is fully seated in the gear, you see a portion sticking out for "disengage" ...............and this is my big concern about shimming

CanukNortonNut said:

jerrykap said:

Hi P400 Hmmn, shouldn't the kickstart pawl be inside the gear before measuring for end play?Happy Holidaze, one and all.C-ya, Jer

p400 said:

Reassembled the gear section, tried to follow OldBritts nice article, but it did not fit my needs on this gearbox.Critical photos and information missing from the article and after you fettle with the parts, it becomes obvious good mechanical sense best prevails.Assemble with end cover showed about .060" kick start shaft clearance or end play......but I had not tightened cover with nuts.Now awaiting shims to be delivered.Photo taken after end cover removed, clearance taken with end cover in place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

JerIt is all the way down. The pawl does not drop down all the way for full engagement and only a partial section actually engages the gear. The pawl section that is proud is what engages the tabs riveted to the gearbox inner cover assembly casting. These tabs disengages the pawl from the gear 1: when the spring returns the kick start to its home position and 2: when the kick lever goes to its full stroke. Otherwise the pawl would be ratcheting when the gear is rotating the moment you take it out of neutral.
Cheers,TomCNN

Click to expand...

Thanks , Yes, what Tom says. This subject really doesn't make sense unless you are handling these pieces. I am now wondering what the reward is for taking (shimming) the float out of the layshaft with this new "improved" layshaft roller replacement.

p400
I have used this roller bearing and I used the Precision Brand Products Inc. 2050 Curtis ST.Downers Grove, IL. 60515 USA
1-1/8 ID X 1-5/8 OD x ASST. shims assorted (a kit) to take out the end float. I got this stock from a Canadian distributor Spaenaur product code 656-229 Used on the Kick-start shaft end. Your red highlighted suggestion on the diagram.... Norton AMC gearbox 4th gear bushes thread.norton-amc-gearbox-4th-gear-bushes-t23678-30.html sorry it seems you are trying to get answers from both forum sections.
You can get this from Mc Carr.... may be not exact but choose your shims to suit your needs. Bolt your inner cover up to torque spec first to get your end float and and then disassemble to add shim stock . works also for the swing arm on a commando to take up the excess tolerance for those poor old O-rings...I went to Quad Rings. :wink:
Cheers,
Tom
CNN

Hey P400,

Thanks for setting me right...now I remember that the pawls are usually only worn on a small portion of their engaging surface. The photo doesn't show the mating parts and it's been awhile since I've had one apart.

Hope your shimming solution works well.

Looking forward to a great 2016, Happy New Year

C-ya, Jer

CanukNortonNut said:

jerrykap said:

Hi P400

Hmmn, shouldn't the kickstart pawl be inside the gear before measuring for end play?

Happy Holidaze, one and all.

C-ya, Jer

p400 said:

Reassembled the gear section, tried to follow OldBritts nice article, but it did not fit my needs on this gearbox.
Critical photos and information missing from the article and after you fettle with the parts, it becomes obvious good mechanical sense best prevails.
Assemble with end cover showed about .060" kick start shaft clearance or end play......but I had not tightened cover with nuts.
Now awaiting shims to be delivered.
Photo taken after end cover removed, clearance taken with end cover in place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jer
It is all the way down. The pawl does not drop down all the way for full engagement and only a partial section actually engages the gear. The pawl section that is proud is what engages the tabs riveted to the gearbox inner cover assembly casting. These tabs disengages the pawl from the gear 1: when the spring returns the kick start to its home position and 2: when the kick lever goes to its full stroke. Otherwise the pawl would be ratcheting when the gear is rotating the moment you take it out of neutral.
Cheers,
Tom
CNN

Click to expand...

I added shims and reassembled as shown.
I added a .025 shim at bearing end and a .020 shim at kick start, reduced clearance to 5-10 thou.

found a crack in one of my engine mount plates!
found a used pair of P11 mount plates on Ebay.....they are on the way.

closer look at engine plate crack.
Yes I could take it somewhere and have it welded and spend hours, and try to find a welder that fits my needs, timing that fits, ..................blah blah
or I can buy used or new plates.
or I could just bolt it up .
I bought used plates off Ebay

Ebay engine plates arrived and look serviceable for my needs.
I am only planning to use one of these for now.