P11 Gearbox, clutch, kickstart, sprocket

Thanks , I would agree. I did find a torque table in a manual called -
1966-1976_Norton_and_Hybrids_workshop_manual.pdf

Another clutch tool that has really been great is a clutch holding tool made from a scrap AMC mainshaft.
I was able to procure a used mainshaft for $30.
Set it up in a shop vise, used an air powered 4" cut off tool.
Allowed a couple inches beyond spline for grinding to a flat.


I worried about how accurate and parallel my flats would be, but after getting started , hand held, with a 6" home grinder. it was pretty easy to flat both sides with enough accuracy to make a great tool. Simply hold the tool in a shop vise, drop the clutch center on it , and ............using the new UK clutch tool , you can easily replace rubber inserts.
This mainshaft will allow you to make 2 clutch tools as the spline is the same on each end.

And you need a four foot section of 1" steel water pipe (Lowes) to put over the handle on the new UK clutch tool to allow easy torque for rubber.
Also you need to lube all the steel and rubber pieces prior to rubber replacement assembly, I used WD40.......if you don't,
it will take twice as much torque to compress large rubbers.....ask me how I know.

p400 your clutch tool is prettier and easier to use than mine, but mine was cheap! Here is a tool I made from old friction plates.






I stacked up and bolted together 5 old friction plates with the half friction on the outside. Three would likely be sufficient, but we engineers can't help over-doing it. The stand offs are 1/2" black iron pipe couplings with a 1" x 1/4" steel strap bridging the standoffs. A 3/4 nut welded to the center of the strap allows a socket to apply torque.

Slick

texasSlick said:

p400 your clutch tool is prettier and easier to use than mine, but mine was cheap! Here is a tool I made from old friction plates.
I stacked up and bolted together 5 old friction plates with the half friction on the outside. Three would likely be sufficient, but we engineers can't help over-doing it. The stand offs are 1/2" black iron pipe couplings with a 1" x 1/4" steel strap bridging the standoffs. A 3/4 nut welded to the center of the strap allows a socket to apply torque.
Slick

Click to expand...

Nice tool, I might have done this, but I had no used plates at the time I needed them.
Thanks for posting photos

Moving along -
Clutch hub torqued at 65 ftlbs
new clutch plates - friction and steel - Walridge
new clutch springs
new clutch nuts
cleaned primary gasket surfaces
I have not had leak free results with this P11 primary case, but the last time I used only sealant/no gasket (Three Bond 1194) and had the smallest amount of static leakage.
Clutch nuts adjusted down until almost flush with stud tops.
primary chain can not be any wider, as it shows signs of rubbing the inner primary case ....probably not this new chain, but in the past.

I am checking my primary for gasket fits and I got my newly purchased primary gaskets from Klempf.
Unfortunately the gasket aren't even close, with two bottom holes aligned everything else is way off.
These gaskets are heavy thick material....and cant be soaked in alligator urine or what ever the latest gasket "saver" .

I had ordered the same primary gaskets from Walridge and they are a perfect fit.
Klempf looks like a good supplier, but these P11 gaskets are not useable.....and I bought two - yikes!


New Walridge gasket - all holes lined up perfect- http://www.walridge.com/

Primary cover back on using the Walridge gasket and a lot of Three Bond 1194.
Letting it cure before adding oil.

Looking good.

Yes I have no doubt that an X or O ring chain will work perfectly ........especially at the rediculously high chain speeds of your primary system which can be well up to 6,000 ft per min. I am of course joking and wonder what the chain manufacturer would advise IF ASKED.
The CORRECT oil for primary chain use given to me by Phil Heath who was part of the original Norton oil bath chain case design team in the 1930s was to use a straight engine oil of SAE 10 or 20 and to fill till oil is JUST touching the lower run of the chain which will create an oil mist in service......or as Mr Heath commented to me..... 'It will stop your problems oi clutch slip and drag but It does very little for chain life'. If you overfill the chain case oil will quickly enter the designed to be run DRY clutch and result in slip and drag problems. Of course the CORRECT lubrication system would be an oil bath chain case with a sump and in it a pump to feed oil on to the inner edge of the side plates so that some oil is forced by centifugal force betwen the side plates and some reaches the plain bearings to lubricate and cool the chain. Incidentally the design life of a Renold chain is given in the industrial design manuals as a minimum of 15,000 hours which at 40 mph = 600,000 miles use.... which is a good indication of how incorrectly we employ chain!! We swop life for incorrect useage.
IGNOR the oil level plug!! The3 idiots even got the height of it wrong on Commandos!!!

Working on a gearbox overhaul, prompted by a wobbly clutch, which seems to be causing new vibration issues.
Bushings 040062 in main sleeve gear M.4. migrated to the inside leaving the clutch with no support.
Since I have found all ball bearings failing.

Working on a gearbox overhaul, prompted by a wobbly clutch, which seems to be causing new vibration issues.
Bushings 040062 in main sleeve gear M.4. migrated to the inside leaving the clutch with no support.
Since I have found all ball bearings failing.
After disassembly , I have ordered the following gearbox parts from Mike at Walridge (Walridge Sales <sales@walridge.com>).
Extras on some parts for spares -
2ea - 06-6203 - SLEEVE GEAR BUSH* 6.72 - 13.44
1ea - 04-0098G SLEEVE GEAR BEARING - GENUINE* - 48.70
1ea - 04-0099 TR M/S BRNG - 22.83
1ea - 06-7710 BEARING SINGLE ROW - NORTON LAYSHAFT/WHEEL - 15.21
1ea - 04-0047 NORTON LAY 3RD BSH - 21.86
1ea - 04-0048 NORTON MS 2ND BUSH - 17.24
1ea - 04-0146 K/S SHAFT BUSHING - 18.21
2ea - 04-0030 G BOX INNER GASKET - 2.08 - 4.16
2ea - 04-0079X O RING DOUBLE LIPPED G/C INNER - 1/4" ID X 3/8" OD - 2.50 - 5.00
2ea - 04-0006X O RING DOUBLE LIPPED G/C OUTER - 5/8" ID X 13/13" OD - 2.50 - 5.00
1ea - 04-0418 MAINSHAFT 2ND - 18T(GENUINE) - 103.52
1ea - 04-0131 SPROCKET SPACER - 22.97
1ea - 04-0132G GEAR BOX SEAL - GENUINE* - 6.99
1ea - 04-0044 K/S PAWL SPRNG - 3.18
2ea - 00-0450 SCREW 2BA X 5/16 G/B Sprocket lock - 0.81
1ea - 06-7710 BEARING SINGLE ROW - (040100)NORTON LAYSHAFT / WHEEL - 15.21
2ea - 00-0200 DRAIN BOLT WASHER (SEE ALSO NOTES) - 0.39 - 0.78
2ea - 04-0129 O RING - QUAD/CAM PL - 1.09 - 2.18
1ea - 04-0374 SPRING WASHER - 1.02
1ea - 04-0137 BOLT - 1.02
1ea - 04-0003 LOCK RING - 19.90

@P400

I am always impressed by the engineering drawings you post. What is your source?

Slick

texasSlick said:

@P400

I am always impressed by the engineering drawings you post. What is your source?

Slick

Click to expand...

I wish I could tell you where this drawing came from, but it was a random search for something.....and then reviewing the images page of the search.
Probably an NOC UK post, buried in their forum. I wish I had the other AMC views from this drawing which show the other pieces to this AMC gearbox.
I modified and cleaned up drawing, somewhat, for P11 and colorized.
Andover has some great IPB drawings for ref, but no Norton part numbers...difficult to use.

Hi all,

This appears to be from the Andover Norton web site, it's a very good resource for Norton parts and they are adding more dominator stuff all the time, however it's still mostly Commando parts. When you roll over the number square with your mouse it gives you the part number and price. Check it out here:
http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... s-list.php First you select the Commando model, then the component section and finally click on the part your after. Nice site but you have to find their Home to get other than Commando parts.

Happy Holidaze,

C-ya, Jer

p400 said:

texasSlick said:

@P400

I am always impressed by the engineering drawings you post. What is your source?

Slick

Click to expand...

I wish I could tell you where this drawing came from, but it was a random search for something.....and then reviewing the images page of the search.
Probably an NOC UK post, buried in their forum. I wish I had the other AMC views from this drawing which show the other pieces to this AMC gearbox.
I modified and cleaned up drawing, somewhat, for P11 and colorized.
Andover has some great IPB drawings for ref, but no Norton part numbers...difficult to use.

Click to expand...

texasSlick said:

@P400

I am always impressed by the engineering drawings you post. What is your source?

Click to expand...

The image is part of a 1956/57 blueprint of the entire gearbox and clutch as manufactured 1956/57 - 1961/62. Strictly speaking, the drawing applies to the AJS/Matchless version of the "common" gearbox only.

Blueprint may be downloaded here:
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-cha ... 65938/view

Regards,

Knut

mdt-son said:

The image is part of a 1956/57 blueprint of the entire gearbox and clutch as manufactured 1956/57 - 1961/62. Strictly speaking, the drawing applies to the AJS/Matchless version of the "common" gearbox only. Blueprint may be downloaded here:
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-cha ... 65938/view
Regards,Knut

Click to expand...

Tusen takk for link.
Small version here, so download the PDF for full size

Just an update, Mike at Walridge says parts on the way....I don't know what Christmas delivery will be for this , but the stuff, at top of page, is on the way.... + some more stuff.

Walridge gearbox parts for this P11 arrived today......pretty fast , 5 days!
Everything bagged and marked............packed very well.

Heated up the gearbox case with my Lowes purchased Wagner heat gun.
Heat up took longer than expected, as the gun heats up small stuff rather fast.
Probably 5 minutes.
Old bearings dropped out with some tapping with wooden dowels and light hammer.
Inserted new bearings, case still hot, after I cleaned up.
Used a wooden dowel on outer races to insure seated in hot case.

Installed new roller Superblend for layshaft end.....replacing a ball.

The clutch holding tool that made from a cut off old mainshaft (earlier post in this thread) has left a perfect tool for installing new bushings in 4th main gear.
I have a small press, that actually is a spring rate tester, that I use for small jobs such as this.
This tool could be cut off and used in a vise to do this job of bushing install.