Oil pump back

The brass back plate will be made from hard leaded engraving brass commonly referred to as CZ120 grade. frequently used for clockwork mechanisms and the like. Nice to work with and free cutting. Do not use the more common CZ108 grade as its not free cutting.
Silver solder like Easyflo will be perfect for filling the holes and redrilling/tapping.
Regarding the Fitter-mechanic-professional-etc debate, here is my two penneth on the subject.
Years ago when talking to a colleague at work the subject was raised about are we fitters now or craftsmen. He was adamant that Craftsman was a far superior title to just being a fitter. His reasoning was 'you can set to and make the parts needed if we can't buy whats required' (we worked all our working careers at a large power station in the UK) 'Fitters are those who can only fit parts to repair something'
A lot of the 'professional engineers' i came across couldn't rebuild an engine to save their life, others could tackle it with ease. You can guess the ones i held in regard.
Regarding the Lathe (the absolute king of machine tools) When your on a night shift and the main steam valve on a 660megawatt boiler needs a new actuator drive nut because the old one has stripped its threads you have cut the thread in a blank nut. Or wait until the morning when the resident site machinist can do the job. If that happened, the boiler unit would be sat boxed in (boiler shut down but still at pressure and hot) That would mean a loss of revenue to the company of quite a few thousands of pounds.
I would not be without my lathes. Greg, you must have a friendly machine shop nearby. What happens when you have a cylinder head that requires oversize guides? ship it off to a cylinder head shop and pay their fees? How long would that turn around be? A few days at least, weeks possibly. The last cylinder head i made and fitted oversize guides for (a 75 year old ES2 norton) took a day. All for the outlay of some cast iron stick and electricity to run the machine tools. No wonder you have to charge $150 an hour, getting others to do your machine work is expensive.
Back to the $150 hourly rate. say 8 hours in the working day = $1200 a day = $6000 a week
All for restoring/commissioning old motorbikes. Some how i don't think so.

dobba99 said:

The brass back plate will be made from hard leaded engraving brass commonly referred to as CZ120 grade. frequently used for clockwork mechanisms and the like. Nice to work with and free cutting. Do not use the more common CZ108 grade as its not free cutting.
Silver solder like Easyflo will be perfect for filling the holes and redrilling/tapping.
Regarding the Fitter-mechanic-professional-etc debate, here is my two penneth on the subject.
Years ago when talking to a colleague at work the subject was raised about are we fitters now or craftsmen. He was adamant that Craftsman was a far superior title to just being a fitter. His reasoning was 'you can set to and make the parts needed if we can't buy whats required' (we worked all our working careers at a large power station in the UK) 'Fitters are those who can only fit parts to repair something'
A lot of the 'professional engineers' i came across couldn't rebuild an engine to save their life, others could tackle it with ease. You can guess the ones i held in regard.
Regarding the Lathe (the absolute king of machine tools) When your on a night shift and the main steam valve on a 660megawatt boiler needs a new actuator drive nut because the old one has stripped its threads you have cut the thread in a blank nut. Or wait until the morning when the resident site machinist can do the job. If that happened, the boiler unit would be sat boxed in (boiler shut down but still at pressure and hot) That would mean a loss of revenue to the company of quite a few thousands of pounds.
I would not be without my lathes. Greg, you must have a friendly machine shop nearby. What happens when you have a cylinder head that requires oversize guides? ship it off to a cylinder head shop and pay their fees? How long would that turn around be? A few days at least, weeks possibly. The last cylinder head i made and fitted oversize guides for (a 75 year old ES2 norton) took a day. All for the outlay of some cast iron stick and electricity to run the machine tools. No wonder you have to charge $150 an hour, getting others to do your machine work is expensive.

Click to expand...

It is extremely rare that I need machine work and I have spare heads and cylinders. I hone Norton cylinders, never bored one - sell the ones needing boring and buy ones that don't! So, on those rare occasions when I do need machine work, sending them out is not an issue. Jim Comstock has two of my crankshafts and it's been about a year - no issue. I actually make way more than $150 in my IT business. When building bikes I'm lucky to make $5/hour. Fixing bikes brings more. Selling parts makes almost nothing. Time is all I have left in the world and not much of that. On the contrary, I live near Washington DC. The only industry here is defense and government - there are NO machine shops.

Yes, if I were a millwright like my cousins in Michigan, single-pointing a nut or bolt to bring a machine back online would be very important. When you're working on 3-5 motorcycles at a time, ordering a part is much more cost and time effective.

I've thought many times about buying a benchtop lathe to dress my collection of drifts. With the cost of one worth having, I can buy over 100 customs drifts made to order. I "make"/sell custom stainless spacers. In truth, I write an email describing what I want, and they show up in a few days for a reasonable price. To buy a lathe, material, and spend the time would simply be stupid. Other special parts I have made by emachineshop https://www.emachineshop.com/ using their free software, you design the part, click a few links and the parts arrive. A lathe and mill would not be enough to make the parts they've made for me.

Seems a little silly that I ask if anyone has new plates for sale and that turns into me being some sort of sub-human for not owning a machine shop!

Now that I know the material (I hope you know what you're talking about) I'll look into having some made to sell - it will take less than 20 minutes of my time if I decide to do it.

Not trying to convince you to buy machine tools as you are obviously managing just fine without, however with a lathe and mill one can make just about any metal part on a motorcyle.

I've watched this fellow build the AJS OHC v4, a Series A Twin Rapide replica, a replica of the 1939 Velocette Roarer racebike and other bikes. All the work is done in his tiny basement with an old lathe and mill. He makes pretty much every part you see here,other than the tires and a few other bits.

marshg246 said:

It is extremely rare that I need machine work and I have spare heads and cylinders. I hone Norton cylinders, never bored one - sell the ones needing boring and buy ones that don't! So, on those rare occasions when I do need machine work, sending them out is not an issue. Jim Comstock has two of my crankshafts and it's been about a year - no issue. I actually make way more than $150 in my IT business. When building bikes I'm lucky to make $5/hour. Fixing bikes brings more. Selling parts makes almost nothing. Time is all I have left in the world and not much of that. On the contrary, I live near Washington DC. The only industry here is defense and government - there are NO machine shops.

Yes, if I were a millwright like my cousins in Michigan, single-pointing a nut or bolt to bring a machine back online would be very important. When you're working on 3-5 motorcycles at a time, ordering a part is much more cost and time effective.

I've thought many times about buying a benchtop lathe to dress my collection of drifts. With the cost of one worth having, I can buy over 100 customs drifts made to order. I "make"/sell custom stainless spacers. In truth, I write an email describing what I want, and they show up in a few days for a reasonable price. To buy a lathe, material, and spend the time would simply be stupid. Other special parts I have made by emachineshop https://www.emachineshop.com/ using their free software, you design the part, click a few links and the parts arrive. A lathe and mill would not be enough to make the parts they've made for me.

Seems a little silly that I ask if anyone has new plates for sale and that turns into me being some sort of sub-human for not owning a machine shop!

Now that I know the material (I hope you know what you're talking about) I'll look into having some made to sell - it will take less than 20 minutes of my time if I decide to do it.

Click to expand...

No disrespect Greg, but i think your building bikes/fixing bikes work flow could be a recipe for disaster. Personally i would be very concerned if your restore work on my machine involved swapping cylinders about to achieve a better bore. What do you do about the cam followers? Do they go with the cylinders you sell? Are the followers refaced in the cylinders you use? Does the cam go with the followers and the cylinder that they are fitted to? You can see that this practice can lead to all sorts of issues. Ditto all the above regarding cylinder heads.
You mention sending crankshafts out for work doing and waiting a year, really... What if Jim was to become ill? heaven forbid.
Having a lathe, milling machine etc is one thing. Anybody can go buy them. Having the skills to use them is another thing entirely.
The chap who repaired his cylinder head exhaust port threads on a small lathe a few posts ago is to be commended for doing so, just shows what a lathe can do in the right hands, Took time but he got there in the end and in less than a year.
Back to the ES2 i mentioned in my previous post. The conrod little end bush fell out of the rod when dismantling, the rod end eye was oval (a known issue with these rods) so it needed a new bush making, (lathe) pressing in (stud bar, nuts and thick washers) and then reaming to suit the pin (vertical mill) Time wise 4 hours. A little less than a year! I could have bought a ready made bush from RGM, saving me making one, but it would still needed reaming after inserting. Having the machine tools and the skill to use them saves time and money hand over fist.
I myself buy in spacers and fasteners that i need and would be uneconomic for me to make, They are called nuts, bolts and washers.
To delay a job just because i would have to wait for something is a waste of time. No wonder you say you have 3-5 bikes in bits, are they all waiting for bits to be made/supplied?
regarding your pump back plate. If you do go ahead and get some made i think you will have them sat on the shelf for years
I know that we won't agree on this so we shall have to agree to disagree.

This is a perfect example of what’s wrong with the internet.

A simple question in a simple post (as to whether or not one agrees with the intention is irrelevant) turns into a slug fest and personal ‘attack’.

I’m a big fan of ‘agreeing to disagree’ and say it a lot. But sometimes, when it’s obvious from the beginning that that will be the ending, then surely one’s ‘filter‘ should kick in and make you ask ‘then what is the point in posting my argument at all… exactly what is it I intend to achieve”?

Greg has a way of building bikes, by his own admission they are all bone stock. It’s a way that works for him, that he enjoys, and that revives many old bikes. For reasons of space, time or money, he does not want to build a machine shop.

I’m in the same boat. Having previously had the luxury of use of a fully equipped machine and fabrication shop, I now find myself having to make do with a very humble and simply equipped shed.

According to some of you lot, that seems to mean I should sell all my Nortons!

Why the fuck someone's machining abilities or facilities should be anyone else's issue is beyond me.

Morning Eddie
In no way did i say that Greg needs to build a machine shop. Just that having one greatly eases and makes possible all sort of things, upto and including bits for motorbikes. I was the person telling Greg what to make the new plate from. Personally i would repair the old one, but thats me (And a lot of other posters as well)
A question for you. Say your commando needs a rebore, you take it to an engine reconditioners that can do the work to your satisfaction.
The cylinder comes back bored and honed to the correct size. Everything cleaned up and engine reassembled, Job done. What happens if you get back a different cylinder? Bore and honed to the same size but what about the cam followers that were mated to the cylinder that they were running in (now sold elsewhere...) You would not be very happy, I know i wouldn't be.
It seems this thread has revealed somethings.....

dobba99 said:

No disrespect Greg, but i think your building bikes/fixing bikes work flow could be a recipe for disaster. Personally i would be very concerned if your restore work on my machine involved swapping cylinders about to achieve a better bore. What do you do about the cam followers? Do they go with the cylinders you sell? Are the followers refaced in the cylinders you use? Does the cam go with the followers and the cylinder that they are fitted to? You can see that this practice can lead to all sorts of issues. Ditto all the above regarding cylinder heads.
You mention sending crankshafts out for work doing and waiting a year, really... What if Jim was to become ill? heaven forbid.
Having a lathe, milling machine etc is one thing. Anybody can go buy them. Having the skills to use them is another thing entirely.
The chap who repaired his cylinder head exhaust port threads on a small lathe a few posts ago is to be commended for doing so, just shows what a lathe can do in the right hands, Took time but he got there in the end and in less than a year.
Back to the ES2 i mentioned in my previous post. The conrod little end bush fell out of the rod when dismantling, the rod end eye was oval (a known issue with these rods) so it needed a new bush making, (lathe) pressing in (stud bar, nuts and thick washers) and then reaming to suit the pin (vertical mill) Time wise 4 hours. A little less than a year! I could have bought a ready made bush from RGM, saving me making one, but it would still needed reaming after inserting. Having the machine tools and the skill to use them saves time and money hand over fist.
I myself buy in spacers and fasteners that i need and would be uneconomic for me to make, They are called nuts, bolts and washers.
To delay a job just because i would have to wait for something is a waste of time. No wonder you say you have 3-5 bikes in bits, are they all waiting for bits to be made/supplied?
regarding your pump back plate. If you do go ahead and get some made i think you will have them sat on the shelf for years
I know that we won't agree on this so we shall have to agree to disagree.

Click to expand...

Greg built the motor for my '74 850. The project was a bare frame up no money spared restoration/upgrade. To establish the credibility of the total project, I took photos from Day 1 which showed the bike spread out on the floor in basket case condition in a 150 year old barn. I continued with photos every step of the way and with everyone involved. Greg took photos for me as he was building my motor and also with the completed areas, i.e.: the head. The work is beautiful. As previously mentioned, I've been involved in building professional road race cars for 50 years with great success, so I can fully appreciate machine work and proper assembly procedures.
My motor is great, zero smoke on it's first start up and none since. Zero oil leaks. And it's pretty to compliment the rest of the bike.

I've had the distinct pleasure of spending time with Greg and his knowledge on the bikes is awesome. He has given me tons of his valuable time in helping with my project as well as giving me an education on the Norton's that I've never had. As the original owner, I waited 40 years to do this project so my learning curve was steep.
Greg also has the skill of explaining things in way that one can understand and put to practical use.

There is no way I could support myself in my business with what Greg charges. He's a gift to the Norton community and doesn't look for anything in return, a rare concept these days. "For the good of all" has been lost over decades but not with Greg.

Constructive criticism or debate can be a good thing. Criticizing someone for the way they do things while not in the same business is not productive. His shop is filled with customer bikes for a reason............

74 Cafe' said:

(snip)
I've had the distinct pleasure of spending time with Greg and his knowledge on the bikes is awesome. He has given me tons of his valuable time in helping with my project as well as giving me an education on the Norton's that I've never had. As the original owner, I waited 40 years to do this project so my learning curve was steep.
Greg also has the skill of explaining things in way that one can understand and put to practical use.

There is no way I could support myself in my business with what Greg charges. He's a gift to the Norton community and doesn't look for anything in return, a rare concept these days. "For the good of all" has been lost over decades but not with Greg.

Click to expand...

My interaction with Greg has only been buying parts and "talking Nortons". My experience has been exactly the same. No ego, no hard sell, no waffling about 'ideas better than everybody else's'. Just good solid info, helpful service, and -- odd in this field -- doing things that he's promised to do when he promises to do them.

Thanks, Greg.

I believe I've got a spare oil pump plate. Let me know and I can drop it in the mail.

dobba99 said:

No disrespect Greg, but i think your building bikes/fixing bikes work flow could be a recipe for disaster. Personally i would be very concerned if your restore work on my machine involved swapping cylinders about to achieve a better bore. What do you do about the cam followers?

Click to expand...

Very simple answer - I do what needs to be done. Sometimes nothing, sometimes surfacing, sometimes replaced. Since you know nothing of my workflow...

As I've said MANY times, I do not restore bike, I rebuild them. That may be semantics to some, but it is not to me.