Oil Issue.........

coomo said:

I look at it this way.Something has changed.Obviously.Lets assume that the engine is fine.I do.Its been checked by builder.I personally think its the catch tank not "breathing" and/or those crap lines I used.When I pulled it apart yesterday the return to tank from CNW breather had a kink in it.Now.Lets assume when I first fitted it,it didnt have a kink.I have removed side panel on many occasions.Its tight in there now there is a catch tank.Maybe the last time I refitted side panel, I kinked oil line.
Something else just came to mind.I wonder if Magnafine filter is directional??!!

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Certainly if the crankcase venting is blocked, it could cause the problem. Let us know!

hi Guys.So stripdown continued.Pull all lines, drained tank and blew through with compressed air.Then I found this.Small seal lodged in oil feed pipe (anti sump valve)
Was jammed in so well, had to use pick to remove.Not sure where it came from.If it was in tank how the hell did it get past the Holland Norton works, anti wet sump valve!

coomo said:

hi Guys.So stripdown continued.Pull all lines, drained tank and blew through with compressed air.Then I found this.Small seal lodged in oil feed pipe (anti sump valve)
Was jammed in so well, had to use pick to remove.Not sure where it came from.If it was in tank how the hell did it get past the Holland Norton works, anti wet sump valve!

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Are you sure its not a part of the CNW anti drain valve ? Never seen one so can't say.

Or was it in the oil feed pipe from the start ?

kommando said:

Are you sure its not a part of the CNW anti drain valve ? Never seen one so can't say.

Or was it in the oil feed pipe from the start ?

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Pretty sure its not part of Holland works valve.Too small.Obviously there is a chance it made it there from the start.Strange how it cut in half.That wasnt me removing it.It was in pipe in two pieces.

That is a mystery !

Good find though.

Driving me crazy! Then I begin to doubt my own sanity! The large banjo on the oil tank where the anti wet sump plus IS THE FEED isnt it?

coomo said:

Driving me crazy! Then I begin to doubt my own sanity! The large banjo on the oil tank where the anti wet sump plus IS THE FEED isnt it?

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Yes it's the feed
And a good job you found a blockage wherever it came from
But that won't make your engine smoke unless it's blocked enough for damage to occur, how badly blocked was it?

baz said:

Yes it's the feed
And a good job you found a blockage wherever it came from
But that won't make your engine smoke unless it's blocked enough for damage to occur, how badly blocked was it?

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Well,It had obstructed the feed by about 30% id guess.If it was causing some back pressure through oil tank? The smoking was sporadic.its not engine related were pretty postive.

coomo said:

Well,It had obstructed the feed by about 30% id guess.If it was causing some back pressure through oil tank? The smoking was sporadic.its not engine related were pretty postive.

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Hopefully no engine damage has occurred at all
Can't see how it could cause back pressure in the oil tank ?
Cool looking bike btw
Cheers

So this little seal thing is a mystery. Acknowledged.
How about this thought re: smoking.
Lets talk oil level, meaning what does the dipstick show ?
My MK111 smoked after the dipstick showed on H yet the motor rebuild was fine.
Lowering the level to halfway between H and L cleared up all smoking.

The bike not smoking anymore. See Avatar.

coomo said:

hi Guys.So stripdown continued.Pull all lines, drained tank and blew through with compressed air.Then I found this.Small seal lodged in oil feed pipe (anti sump valve)
Was jammed in so well, had to use pick to remove.Not sure where it came from.If it was in tank how the hell did it get past the Holland Norton works, anti wet sump valve!

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There should be an O-ring on the plug which is missing from the plug in your photo?
http://www.hollandnortonworks.eu/en/exclusive-commando-parts

Yup your right!! When I pulled the valve there was no O ring

The seal that I found in the feed pipe MUST be the remains of that O ring.Im presuming It got snagged when fitted.Unless of course, its been like that since original build,and not contributing to smoke issue.
Waiting for everyone to get back to work, so I can get new oil lines!

Torontonian said:

So this little seal thing is a mystery. Acknowledged.
How about this thought re: smoking.
Lets talk oil level, meaning what does the dipstick show ?
My MK111 smoked after the dipstick showed on H yet the motor rebuild was fine.
Lowering the level to halfway between H and L cleared up all smoking.

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I havent fitted back up yet.waiting for new oil lines

Hi Coomo,


Reading your thread I will chime in to explain the function of the outside o-ring on our Anti Wet Sump Valve:

Oil seeping back via the threads of the oil tank oil filter bolt does partly contribute to wet sumping therefor the outside o-ring of our AWSV will prevent oil seeping via the threads. This outside o-ring doesn’t affect the functioning of the AWSV itself at all.

To prevent damage of this o-ring whilst fitting the AWSV I recommend first to check there are no sharp burrs inside the oil tank connection banjo eye then smear some oil inside the oil tank connection banjo eye and also on the AWSV rubber o-ring before pushing the AWSV through the oil tank connection banjo eye.


Unfortunately HNW is closed until January 24th (I am abroad) so I am currently not able to help you out with a new o-ring but you can use any oil resistant o-ring from a local automotive store that fits inside the AWSV square groove.


Also it is unlikely the partly blocked oil tank connection banjo pipe caused ‘burning oil’. Torontonian’s mentioned a too high oil level could indeed be a cause of burning oil as there are two oil dipstick types used for Commando. These dipsticks look the same but only differ in high-level ‘H’ mark: higher oil level type dipstick measures 1” from ‘L’ to ‘H’ whereas lower oil level type dipstick measures 5/8” from ‘L’ to ‘H’ mark. The dipstick with the higher ‘H’ mark will overfill the oil tank if your Commando uses the extern spin-on oil filter sytem.


Constant Trossèl
www.hollandnortonworks.eu

Thankyou for the reply Constant.I will be more prudent when re fitting the valve.I have supply of o rings.

"Lowering the level to halfway between H and L cleared up all smoking."

I'm trying to understand how this could happen on a dry-sump engine.

Excessive oil level in an engine sump/oil pan will allow the crankshaft to create a "cloud" of oil due to the proximity of the crank to the oil in the sump/pan. It can be so severe that there is no oil left in the pan itself to lubricate the engine. Mopar once did a demonstration at one of their racing clinics, showing a 426 Hemi motor with no windage tray running at 6000 RPM. It actually generated a "hurricane" and pulled 5 quarts of oil out of the pan to form a cloud around the spinning crankshaft. With the windage tray in place, no oil cloud. So, It can (and does) happen on an overfull wet sump engine but on a dry sump, since the return side of the pump has much greater capacity than the feed side, the oil level in the sump itself should never rise above whatever level was specified in the engine design. IOW, the oil should never get close enough to the spinning crankshaft to be pulled into a cloud that can then make it's way into the combustion chamber and/or oil-starve the engine.

A dry sump system SHOULD "automatically" prevent the problem - the amount of oil in the tank SHOULD have very little effect on the level in the sump. NOTE, I am not saying that reducing the level didn't clear up the smoking. I'm just trying to understand how lowering the oil level in the tank could do that because it shouldn't change the level of oil in the bottom of the engine since the pump determines that.

Here's a half arsed theory - overfilling the oil tank with a stock oil tank and air filter would overflow excess oil into the air cleaner. Possibly allowing oil to be drawn into the intake.

Hmmm - excellent point and a very likely possibility!

MexicoMike you are right I should have explained how a too high oil level in the oil tank COULD cause oil burning. As Maylar already mentioned the excess of oil could escape via the oil tank breather to the air filter. Anyway it is recommended to check your oil dipstick and correct the 'H' mark if necessary, easily done by making an extra dash mark (I have corrected a lot over the years!)

Constant Trossèl
www.hollandnortonworks.eu