OEM Front Brake Upgrades For Best Performance

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MexicoMike said:
Is the CNW Brembo a 13mm? I don't know, never checked/cared but having considerable experience with both, the Brembo functions far better. As I said - like modern brakes. Not being a brake design engineer, I don't have the faintest idea of the internals/design that allow it to do so compared to the OEM.

FWIW there are some folks that believe that the OEM MC was intentionally designed to function just as it does...IOW, to NOT provide the level of stopping power that a MC like the Brembo does. Whether true or not, it's not like hydraulic master cylinders were new technology at the time. The parameters to provide whatever stopping power/feel were well understood. For whatever reason, Norton made the choice they made for how the brakes 'should' feel/function.
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Wow !!! Aside from myself ,You are the first person i have ever heard mention the idea that the design was intentional . My rationale was that this was the Brits. first attempts to introduce ABS . ;) Other than changing to a braided line , I still run the original set up . I like the idea of grabbing a handful of brake with little fear of fully locking up the front wheel

Cheers
 
Ron Hulton said:
Wow !!! Aside from myself ,You are the first person i have ever heard mention the idea that the design was intentional . My rationale was that this was the Brits. first attempts to introduce ABS . ;) Other than changing to a braided line , I still run the original set up . I like the idea of grabbing a handful of brake with little fear of fully locking up the front wheel

Cheers
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A number of years ago, I took the FAST riding course with Michel Mercier at Shannonville race track. There they taught us how to brake hard without locking up the front wheel. It is all about weight transfer, and getting the load onto the front wheel in a very controlled and deliberate manner.

Start by applying the front brake with a light pull, to get the front end to drop and the forks to compress a bit. Then you pretty much pull the lever right to the bars, and stop as hard as you want. After a while, I could actually feel the rear wheel lifting off slightly without any sign of the front trying to lock.

After 2 days of hot laps of the track, a muscle memory was developed and I have been using this technique ever since when I have to brake hard.

Without weight transfer, the front wheel does not have much normal force applied to it, and the contact patch can easily become saturated without much braking torque. Grabbing a mitt full of front brake all at once can easily lock the front wheel
 
Ron Hulton said:
Wow !!! Aside from myself ,You are the first person i have ever heard mention the idea that the design was intentional . My rationale was that this was the Brits. first attempts to introduce ABS . ;) Other than changing to a braided line , I still run the original set up . I like the idea of grabbing a handful of brake with little fear of fully locking up the front wheel

Cheers
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They also fitted a restrictive valve and there was one member on here who drove a hot nail through it and said it really improved his brake, which led to very many, err lets say "entertaining" discussions about the merits of that particular modification.
 
I think the point has been made that a lot of the fade problem with the stock front brake is the fact that the pad area of the caliper is too small. So this is why the AP caliper with its bigger pads is used.
If you ride a bike with modern brakes use two fingers.
 
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Ron Hulton said:
Wow !!! Aside from myself ,You are the first person i have ever heard mention the idea that the design was intentional . My rationale was that this was the Brits. first attempts to introduce ABS . ;) Other than changing to a braided line , I still run the original set up . I like the idea of grabbing a handful of brake with little fear of fully locking up the front wheel

Cheers
Click to expand...
Norton did experiment with ABS in the 70s
The reason that was touted for a detuned Norton commando front brake was the US was the biggest market worldwide
And they didn't want Americans claiming off them if they grabbed a big handful of brake and fell off Post in thread 'ABS?' https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/abs.26568/post-397930
 
Derek Wilson said:
A number of years ago, I took the FAST riding course with Michel Mercier at Shannonville race track. There they taught us how to brake hard without locking up the front wheel. It is all about weight transfer, and getting the load onto the front wheel in a very controlled and deliberate manner.

Start by applying the front brake with a light pull, to get the front end to drop and the forks to compress a bit. Then you pretty much pull the lever right to the bars, and stop as hard as you want. After a while, I could actually feel the rear wheel lifting off slightly without any sign of the front trying to lock.

After 2 days of hot laps of the track, a muscle memory was developed and I have been using this technique ever since when I have to brake hard.

Without weight transfer, the front wheel does not have much normal force applied to it, and the contact patch can easily become saturated without much braking torque. Grabbing a mitt full of front brake all at once can easily lock the front wheel
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I hear you Derek ... and i agree . Just saying that my bike will not lock the front wheel ... That from experience. I have considered many times upgrading but i can't convince myself that there is really an issue with what i have . If anything , i'd like some better help from the rear brake . Now that one is useless .

Cheers
 
Ron Hulton said:
I hear you Derek ... and i agree . Just saying that my bike will not lock the front wheel ... That from experience. I have considered many times upgrading but i can't convince myself that there is really an issue with what i have . If anything , i'd like some better help from the rear brake . Now that one is useless .

Cheers
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Yup, I here you. It is a personal choice for sure. After the accident that I had 20 years ago, I am a bit paranoid of cars pulling out in front of me, and it offers me some peace of mind having a good stopper.

On the proactive side, a headlight capable of projecting a dot on the moon adds to the not having to use the brake in anger...

We do what we got to do!! :)
 
@Dan1950 , If you feel confident doing something yourself, there are many great homemade brake setups on here, but this from member Matchless is the neatest and simplest I've seen. No Hulking great adapter plates. These Yamaha calipers can be bought on Ebay for around $25 in the U.S.

www.accessnorton.com

What front disc, caliper combo? Mk2a 850

From CnW
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com

You will need a larger disc if you want to keep the mudguard stay though.
 
Ron Hulton said:
Wow !!! Aside from myself ,You are the first person i have ever heard mention the idea that the design was intentional . My rationale was that this was the Brits. first attempts to introduce ABS . ;) Other than changing to a braided line , I still run the original set up . I like the idea of grabbing a handful of brake with little fear of fully locking up the front wheel

Cheers
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State of the motorcycle (and auto) industry at the time. Todays vehicles have much better brakes generally speaking.
 
I have a 1959 TR3a. First production car with disc brakes. I have the original hydraulic set up. Even the original fluid reservoir. Although designed and made without a servo, they need normal foot pressure to stop well and have good feel. It was possible back then.
 
Mart UK said:
I have a 1959 TR3a. First production car with disc brakes. I have the original hydraulic set up. Even the original fluid reservoir. Although designed and made without a servo, they need normal foot pressure to stop well and have good feel. It was possible back then.
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Same with my 60' Healey.
 
ashman said:
What's your life worth, keeping your Norton as much as stock or having a good brake set up that will stop you when you really need it, I have been down this road in the 46 years of owning my Norton and a few rebuilds of the stock front brakes and one day it will let you down when you really need it, for me it was 2x in a short period of time and the last time I got injured, that was it for me and while recovering a full front brake upgrade to modern brake system, was the best thing I ever done to my frontend and in fact it looks better than stock and stops as good as my modern Triumph Thruxton, I was lucky as mine let me down at a slow speed, could have been worst if I was going faster and it let me down without warning, spend the money and do it right and a full upgrade is the best that you can do, my Norton is worth it as well my life, don't do 1/2 a job.

Ashley
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Good advice Ashley. Can you tell us a little more on how it let you down? Was it a mechanical event or just not enough stooping power when you needed it?
 
Bigger front brakes and still those little bendy front stanchions, had to do an emergency stop on the Commando and was able to lock the front wheel in a controlled manner, standard caliper and disc, 13mm conversion to the original master cylinder and I am not that strong at my age, but adrenaline helps I guess :).
Don't have too many mountains but, do have twisty bits and have never had brake fade on the Commando, can't even remember what pads I have fitted but they are good.

Spent a weekend with a brake manufacturer at Phillip Island once, we spoke about different disc materials SS, k1045, cast irons, and also brake pads, he lost me but it was informative.

There is a lot of science in brake design and I tend to leave it with experts :).

Burgs
 
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