Norton Manxman

Rohan · Dec 22, 2016

Bernhard said:
Your point on paint is noted, but wasn’t it you who supplied the method of painting Polychromatic Blue :?:

http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-cha ... /958198253

There are all sorts of modern interpretations of older paints.
And as GP has indicated above.

But Nortons had their own enamelling tanks, and it would have just had a coat or 3 of enamel out of the factory.
As other posters on the NOC Forum have pointed out, and found colour matches for.

I painted an early 1950s dommie in Nortons earlier version of polychromatic blue, a much lighter shade than the Manxman's version. Someone familiar with this type of paint mixed it up for me, he said it was a pearl type of paint ( finely crushed glass ) to give that "polychromatic" prismatic look to it in different lights.

Someone in the US found this was about an identical shade that Mercury painted some of their outboards back then.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JBY7X%2Bu1L.jpg
This ain't rocket science...

But we diverge from Manxmans.

frankdamp · Dec 23, 2016

Maybe they're Manxmen in the plural.

Rohan · Dec 23, 2016

Thats a good one Frank !!
Anna might have something to say about that though...

annajeannette · Jan 20, 2017

Rohan said:
Thats a good one Frank !!
Anna might have something to say about that though...

YES this Headlamp is the correct light blue paint and its nothing like a mercury colour has its some what darker shade and its not a metallic paint like that on this headlamp

Rohan · Jan 20, 2017

If you knew your paints Anna, you would know the headlamp I showed is NOT a METALLIC colour.
Its a 1950 Norton polychromatic blue, mixed/matched to a genuine formula.
I think the paint mixing guy said he used crushed glass in it, which equates more or less to a 'pearl' type paint these days. Its what reflects light in many ways, which gives the 'poly' bit to the way it looks from different angles.

BTW, polychromatic paints were around even back into the 1930s,
Royal Enfield used it on their tanks in 1939 I hear, and some cars had it back then too.

You seem to be becoming quite adept at just making silly statements, for the heck of it. ?
Same as noted on the NOC too...

frankdamp · Jan 20, 2017

My company-provided 650SS was all black except for a silver fuel tank. I think it had twin carbs. It was a rather tired old hack, if the odometer, showing over 135,000 miles was to be believed. I rode it 45 miles each way from where we lived before moving within 10 mies of the N-V Marston Road facility. It was very reliable, the only problem being a blown heaad gasket from the cyllinder to outside. The failure occurred abut 10 mile from the plant, and I had it fixed before it was time to go home.

Although I decided not to ride in the US because of the risk of making a n LHD/RHD mistake and leaving DW and kids without a Dad, I stll think I'd like to have had that old bird over here. Does anyone know what happened to it? I don't think it was ever registered and it had trade plates (001-JW, a Wolverhampton reg.) all the time I used it. Last I saw of it was in the Comp. Dept. garage at Marston Road on a brief return trip from Seattle maybe in mid-1969.

annajeannette · Jan 27, 2017

Rohan said:
Bernhard said:

Your point on paint is noted, but wasn’t it you who supplied the method of painting Polychromatic Blue :?:

http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-cha ... /958198253

Click to expand...

There are all sorts of modern interpretations of older paints.
And as GP has indicated above.

But Nortons had their own enamelling tanks, and it would have just had a coat or 3 of enamel out of the factory.
As other posters on the NOC Forum have pointed out, and found colour matches for.

I painted an early 1950s dommie in Nortons earlier version of polychromatic blue, a much lighter shade than the Manxman's version. Someone familiar with this type of paint mixed it up for me, he said it was a pearl type of paint ( finely crushed glass ) to give that "polychromatic" prismatic look to it in different lights.

Someone in the US found this was about an identical shade that Mercury painted some of their outboards back then.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JBY7X%2Bu1L.jpg
This ain't rocket science...

But we diverge from Manxmans.

Norton Manxman colour match YOU need lotus pacific Blue PAINT code A68

annajeannette · Jan 27, 2017

RAYSONS said:
Are we all talking about some of these, jeff, an atlas with slightly modified silencers?

Send us some better pictures and i'll take a look, i highly doubt there will be anything fancy about them.

Ben @ Raysons

THESE ARE NOT MODIFIED SILENCER THESE ARE BRACEBRIDGE STREET IN HOUSE MADE FOR THE NORTON MANXMAN ONLY

annajeannette · Jan 27, 2017

Rohan said:
Bernhard said:

Your point on paint is noted, but wasn’t it you who supplied the method of painting Polychromatic Blue :?:

Click to expand...

http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-cha ... /958198253

NOC TECHNICAL IS OUT OF DATE NORTON MANXMAN 650 Colour Code is A68 lotus pacific blue met you need a mid gold base coat has you can no longer get the old colour these have all been outlawed has unsafe to use by the board of trade and so-called old enamels were synthetic based restorers like me now use Cellulose based or Acrylic based paints so that why you need a gold basecoat then paint over with the blue the paint blends in on the workpiece and there is not powder coating that will the same job you cannot use old paint from the 1960s anymore there banned by the board of trade and EC directive restorers now using cellulose based must now be licensed to use these substances and have the correct venting and spraying booth and follow the correct spraying procedure and have the right protective clothing and breathing apparatus and a constant temperature of 70f safety first

annajeannette · Jan 27, 2017

this is the old polychromatic light blue and was use for export machines along with post office red or black and the mercury was nothing like this colour that all its was Atlantic blue and not in metallic

Rohan · Jan 27, 2017

annajeannette said:
NOC TECHNICAL IS OUT OF DATE NORTON MANXMAN 650 Colour Code is A68 lotus pacific blue met you need a mid gold base coat has you can no longer get the old colour these have all been outlawed has unsafe to use by the board of trade and so-called old enamels were synthetic based restorers like me now use Cellulose based or Acrylic based paints so that why you need a gold basecoat then paint over with the blue

You are yet to show us an example of this "gold basecoat" on anything Anna - anything with a paint chip on it should show the basecoat underneath - if there is one ?
None of the samples of manxman paint I have examined shows any evidence of this - although I didn't get out my penknife and start scratching away. !!

2 pack enamels are still available of course, as are a wide variety of many tough types of paint - many trucks and aircraft will be finished in them. Cellulose was a cheaper finish back then, and Nortons had their own enamelling tanks. And AMC had acquired Sunbeam in the 1930s, reportedly purely to obtain their secret of the beautiful glossy black enamel finish to their bikes. (it seems the 'secret' was just the care and attention in flatting back everything perfectly smooth, before the next coat of enamel was applied) "Three coats of best enamel" and all that...
Commandos I can't vouch for though....

P.S. Has anyone examined an original paint manxman anywhere as to the paint finish ?
A perfect sign that the parts were enamel DIPPED is the presence of drip marks and runs towards the lower points of things, as they would have been hung to dry, and oven baked.
I have a few black bits of Nortons and AMC stuff that clearly have been so treated, the drips and slight runs seem to follow the path of gravity... (!) The deep lustrous black of unused parts is lovely to view too, although in use whatever formula of enamel they used seems to oxidise away a little faster than modern tougher type paints would do...

texasSlick · Jan 27, 2017

Rohan said:
P.S. Has anyone examined an original paint manxman anywhere as to the paint finish ?
A perfect sign that the parts were enamel DIPPED is the presence of drip marks and runs towards the lower points of things, as they would have been hung to dry, and oven baked.
I have a few black bits of Nortons and AMC stuff that clearly have been so treated, the drips and slight runs seem to follow the path of gravity... (!) The deep lustrous black of unused parts is lovely to view too, although in use whatever formula of enamel they used seems to oxidise away a little faster than modern tougher type paints would do...

Many parts on my Atlas show such drip marks. The frame black paint has oxidized to a charcoal gray, but the swing arm paint has remained deep black, glossy and tough. That would indicate frame and swing arm were painted in different shops.

Slick

Matt Spencer · Feb 5, 2017

Theres a thing .

annajeannette · Feb 15, 2017

Rohan said:
annajeannette said:

NOC TECHNICAL IS OUT OF DATE NORTON MANXMAN 650 Colour Code is A68 lotus pacific blue met you need a mid gold base coat has you can no longer get the old colour these have all been outlawed has unsafe to use by the board of trade and so-called old enamels were synthetic based restorers like me now use Cellulose based or Acrylic based paints so that why you need a gold basecoat then paint over with the blue

Click to expand...

You are yet to show us an example of this "gold basecoat" on anything Anna - anything with a paint chip on it should show the basecoat underneath - if there is one ?
None of the samples of manxman paint I have examined shows any evidence of this - although I didn't get out my penknife and start scratching away. !!

2 pack enamels are still available of course, as are a wide variety of many tough types of paint - many trucks and aircraft will be finished in them. Cellulose was a cheaper finish back then, and Nortons had their own enamelling tanks. And AMC had acquired Sunbeam in the 1930s, reportedly purely to obtain their secret of the beautiful glossy black enamel finish to their bikes. (it seems the 'secret' was just the care and attention in flatting back everything perfectly smooth, before the next coat of enamel was applied) "Three coats of best enamel" and all that...
Commandos I can't vouch for though....

P.S. Has anyone examined an original paint manxman anywhere as to the paint finish ?
A perfect sign that the parts were enamel DIPPED is the presence of drip marks and runs towards the lower points of things, as they would have been hung to dry, and oven baked.
I have a few black bits of Nortons and AMC stuff that clearly have been so treated, the drips and slight runs seem to follow the path of gravity... (!) The deep lustrous black of unused parts is lovely to view too, although in use whatever formula of enamel they used seems to oxidise away a little faster than modern tougher type paints would do...

Hello Let me make this clear we now use a gold base, has an under coat its was not done like this in the factory so do not bother trying to find in on original colours you Cannot use Old type paints anymore they are BANNED By the EC directive and Heath and safety only modern paints can be used and for cellulose you need to be licensed to use it the old paint had syante in them which is not good for your heath SO forget your old type paints

annajeannette · Feb 18, 2017

Rohan said:
If you knew your paints Anna, you would know the headlamp I showed is NOT a METALLIC colour.
Its a 1950 Norton polychromatic blue, mixed/matched to a genuine formula.
I think the paint mixing guy said he used crushed glass in it, which equates more or less to a 'pearl' type paint these days. Its what reflects light in many ways, which gives the 'poly' bit to the way it looks from different angles.

BTW, polychromatic paints were around even back into the 1930s,
Royal Enfield used it on their tanks in 1939 I hear, and some cars had it back then too.

You seem to be becoming quite adept at just making silly statements, for the heck of it. ?
Same as noted on the NOC too...

Well any paint that is ground up with a metallic base material's these are there called metallic paints right from the 1930s ici tech-loyd paint synthetic base paints you ozies call enamel paint of all things like humberol for painting model railways and other models You can still by synthetic paints today but there limited to the historic industry and restores of railway equipment or vintage motorcycles or cars or steam drive road vehicles also you can go down the Hammerite road that's enamel synthetic paints

Rohan · Feb 18, 2017

annajeannette said:
the old paint had syante in them which is not good for your heath SO forget your old type paints

RECENT type paints have isocyanates in them, which is what I think you are referring to ?
That stuff is dangerous. (In 2 pak and enamel hardner. )

Old type enamels which were oven baked didn't though - although they had lead in them, which has been banned.
Industrial enamel is still available in this neck of the woods, no nasties in it, its rather soft though,
and takes years to get any hardness to it...

Metallic paints as such, where you could see the metal flakes didn't really commonly appear until the 1960s.
Nortons and Triumph called those early 1950s paints "metallic sheen" or "polychromatic" - it had aluminium or glass in it, so finely ground it was just a powder...

Norton46 · Mar 27, 2017

Hi
Auctions just finished on ebay for manxman parts. One was for front forks.
This included the shrouds which appear to show a dark primer layer, a gold layer and the final blue color layer. Just thought I would add it for historical purposes.

PM me if you should want a copy.

Mark

Rohan · Mar 27, 2017

I've just been rubbing back a similar era Triumph tank which has a thick layer of gold OVER everything.
There is no accounting what some owners will do. !!

Is there any gold under the blue on that inner primary cover ?
I was admiring that inner primary in manxman blue on ebay the other day,
and thinking it would make a good sample for precise color matching.

Good that it went to someone who will make good use of it.
T'was sad that what appeared to be a whole bike was being broken though....

Bernhard · Mar 27, 2017

Rohan said:
I've just been rubbing back a similar era Triumph tank which has a thick layer of gold OVER everything.
There is no accounting what some owners will do. !!

Is there any gold under the blue on that inner primary cover ?
I was admiring that inner primary in manxman blue on ebay the other day,
and thinking it would make a good sample for precise color matching.

Good that it went to someone who will make good use of it.
T'was sad that what appeared to be a whole bike was being broken though....

Or maybe not….didn’t they spray the base colour silver to create a polychromatic blue :?:
Maybe gold undercoat was another effect :?:

Rohan · Mar 27, 2017

Bernhard said:
Or maybe not….didn’t they spray the base colour silver to create a polychromatic blue :?:
Maybe gold undercoat was another effect :?:

Anna keeps saying things like that.
But a silver (or gold) basecoat with a transparent color coat over the top is a recipe for CANDY APPLE type paints.
Some of the red Commandos had candy apple red paint - it even said so in the brochures and parts lists.
(And there were some rarer candy apple greens and (darker) blues in AMCs color palette).

But all the Manxman parts I've sighted doesn't seem to have any such basecoat at all - all the scratches and marks are just bare steel underneath - Nortons don't seem to have even used a primer for most of their paints - the enamel was just applied over clean bare steel - and they could get away with that because it was clean bare steel.

I was admiring this inner primary cover for a Manxman on ebay.
Nice example to get a perfect paint match from, with this color scanning technology they have these days.
Norton46 in another thread mentions he has acquired this cover...
Note the big scratch down low - nothing but bare steel underneath.

Be interesting to see if those forks above have the gold UNDER or OVER the blue ?
It looks like a patch of gold OVER the blue on the top yoke ?

Norton Manxman

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