Norton Fiberglass Tank Expansion

It's a steel Indian tank that I had modified.

You have a nicer bench to take pictures on!! Looking at it again you may run into problems with the length increase you now have and the rear frame cradle tubes





And on the bike before it had the last lot of sanding

That looks great, It looks like you would have gained at least a gallon. I might have to move the rear cut outs for the frame cradle a bit. Looks like your building this in your living room. I am painting my frame silver like yours, it will have a nice contrast with the body pieces. It looks like your transmission and engine cases are painted black. I like that contrast with the outer aluminum covers. Nice pics.
Bruce

Here is a picture of a 1970 Roadster, same as mine. You can see the gap between the seat and tank. Also another bonus is the gap between the side cover and the tank align much better when I bring it back an inch.

Grinding and cutting out the slag. Trying to make a uniform surface to epoxy too when I mate the pieces. I have been thinking long and hard about that process. I am going too vinyl epoxy resin with fiberglass or Kevlar the whole inside of the tank also the exterior once all glued together. Than coat the whole inside again with a tank sealer just in case I missed something.

It would be really nice to lightly bead-blast or soda-blast the interior to get all the debris off and open-up the surface for really good bonding of your next layer.

Emailed Master bond:
Hello David,
Thank you for your interest in Master Bond.
I do not have an adhesive that meets the UL1316 requirement.
Best regards,

CompositesCanada.com
called No pick-up and Vmail "not set up"

Hope you find something suitable for E-10.....looks bad so far :?:
All the shaping and blasting and glueing for nothing if you have no barrier to the E-10.

I'm waiting on a engineering query reply from ashland chemical. :roll:

mschmitz57
"for really good bonding of your next layer."

....... next layer of what?
Hopefully he finds the "right stuff"
I have not so far/

I was thinking about bead blasting it a bit. I am roughing up the surface with a 80 grit mini disc to get all the highs and lows out first.

mschmitz57
"for really good bonding of your next layer."

....... next layer of what?
Hopefully he finds the "right stuff"
I have not so far/[/quote]


If I can't get a suitable sealer for the Vinyl ester epoxy resin than I have been thinking about making a Tin liner inside the whole tank before I epoxy is back together. Just an idea :idea:

The bead blast would be in preparation for the additional layers of fiberglass reinforcement.

I've got Caswell epoxy in my aluminum Lyta tank on my Atlas and its been fine for 3 years with the local gasohol. The stuff is still hard as a rock.
This stuff sticks like baby-shit to a blanket. How long do I have to wait before I can declare success?
Just add a final coat of Caswell to the tank and you'll be fine.

That is what I was planning. I have been reading so many articles on sealers and epoxy's and Vinyl ester resins my brain is going numb or maybe dumb.
I have decided to use 2 layers of carbon fiber or Kevlar cloth on the inside with vinyl ester resin and than seal it all with Caswell tank sealer. Than I want to put one uniform layer on the outside of carbon fiber with vinyl ester resin. 4 layers of products. That has to last a few years.
I have used the POR15 before in rusty steel tanks and have never had a leak. And that has been over 8 years now.
Thanks for everyone's the advice.
I am in no rush so this process will be done over the next 2 weeks.
I will try to post pics as I go. If I did it again I would have made the initial cuts differently. But I will wait until I'm done to show where it should be cut if anyone else try's this.

Edit: After just watching this video I am going to use fiberglass cloth on the inside. It is just going to be so much easier to manage all the curves on the interior of the tank. And Kevlar on the exterior for crash damage.
Good video on comparing Kevlar and fiberglass and resins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwam8Fq_U78

snortonNorton said:

I have used the POR15 before in rusty steel tanks and have never had a leak. And that has been over 8 years now.

Click to expand...

Yes, My steel Roadster tank was repaired by Ross Thompson and he finished it off with POR15 coating. Again, it's been around 3 years and it's hard as a rock.
Float bowls and fuel filters are always clean as a hound's tooth. I think part of the problem is the old resin formulations of the 60's and 70's were really prone to break down with modern fuels. And age, ozone, ultraviolet, vibration, etc doesn't help either.

I wouldnt bead blast it, too smooth there is no chemical bond with the new glue to the old. I would be going with 40 to 60 grit and a good clean to remove dust and thats all

60 grit or just some wire brushing with a splash of acetone to clean and chemically etch old surface and hot air dry and about anything will stick permanent.

What I was doing over 15 years ago....
http://atlanticgreen.com/ntfbrgls.htm

None of my work will continue until I find the E-10 Resistant "good stuff"
Fastback, Dunstall commando, and Dunstall featherbed tanks and others.
Back to lurk mode

dynodave said:

What I was doing over 15 years ago....
http://atlanticgreen.com/ntfbrgls.htm

None of my work will continue until I find the E-10 Resistant "good stuff"
Fastback, Dunstall commando, and Dunstall featherbed tanks and others.
Back to lurk mode

Click to expand...

You were a busy boy back then, weren't you? Do you have any more pics of the tank and seat making process that you could share? It does look interesting.

About the E-10 resistance. Is it possible that some of the resins mentioned in this thread might actually be E-10 resistant, but the manufacturers didn't think it was worth the cost to go for the UL approval? I don't know how expensive UL rating is, so that's a serious question, not trying to start an argument here.

Ken

I never specifically started out looking for UL1316. I was looking for any and all epoxy, polyester and vinylester including any novalac blends for BOTH gasoline AND ethanol chemical resistance as the criteria. NEVER EVER have found so far one that meets the criteria. I think it might exist but have not been successful in finding it. In the final cut the UL rating sums it up.
My current hope is the Ashland Chemical blend but have not heard back. I'll be calling them if I don't hear back from my engineering "contact" inquiry.

The actual fiberglass mold making and part making is kindergarden stuff IMO. The biggest thing is practicing known and published techniques. I read several industry guides which are often boat related and then customized my manufacturing to apply to Lotus car and Norton and Dunstall parts.

In the 80's I did a multi part full nose mold for my 69 Elan+2. Around the mid 90's I made a repop fastback tank with "Aquasheild" a blend that was supposed to be "gasoline" resistant since it was called out for building gas station underground tanks...Well I won't repeat that mistake until I find the "real" stuff. My Dunstall Atlas, that I've owned since 1992,
http://atlanticgreen.com/dunstall.htm
Will not get back on the road until I install my repop E-10 resistant gas tank. The original general purpose resin would not hold up for a month. If the original tank got ruined from caswell I would get super pissed.

dynodave said:

What I was doing over 15 years ago....
http://atlanticgreen.com/ntfbrgls.htm

None of my work will continue until I find the E-10 Resistant "good stuff"
Fastback, Dunstall commando, and Dunstall featherbed tanks and others.
Back to lurk mode

Click to expand...

Nice work. I am thinking of making a mold of my tank when I am done and than make a steel tank from that. I am going to try a Vinyl Ester resin with the fiberglass hoping it would be much more durable with todays fuels.

The fairing you are inquiring about in one of your pictures looks like a late 1970's Vetter fairing, used on Gold wings and many other bikes of that era.

snortonNorton said:

The fairing you are inquiring about in one of your pictures looks like a late 1970's Vetter fairing, used on Gold wings many other bikes.

Click to expand...

All the vetter ones I've seen are frame mount (I own a vetter for commando) where as the one in question is handle bar mount. Did vetter make a bar mount fairing?

ANY resin I use will have to pass the companies engineering application sheet or I won't touch it. The test/trial will be to make a new tank. Something I can cut up and throw away if I must.

I've had one of those fairings for many years.
I believe the brand was DB for Dan Brown, and were used on Moto Guzzis.
This fit Nortons really easily with hose clamps on the fork tubes with angle brackets and two handlebar attachments.
The stock Lucas turn signals located nicely into the design and the headlight opening g fit perfectly too.
The clear plexi screen is labeled Gustafsson.

Anyone need it?