Norton Fiberglass Tank Expansion

snortonNorton · Apr 7, 2015

I know, I'm a little nuts, but most bikers are.
I remember my first bike was an RD350 and I was running out of gas on the 401 highway about 70 miles East of Toronto in the mid 1970's and It was getting dark. I turned off at the next exit turned North and found myself lost and on reserve with no gas station in sight. I was 16 than. I guess that experience has never left and still worries me to this day.
Eleven liters just doesn't do it for me. I am going to try and blow this tank out to close to 15 liters if possible and still keep the original contours. I will be using the new fiberglass gas/alcohol resistant resins and I think I will put one coat of carbon fiber over the whole tank (top & bottom) when I'm finished.
3.8 lites = 1 imperial gallon.
3.8 liters = 332 cubic inches, so I have to add about 1" thick by 10" wide by 24" long in volume to this tank. That is my goal.

manx850 · Apr 7, 2015

Why not just buy an interstate tank & save all the work....better looking tank anyway, 6 Gallons......

mschmitz57 · Apr 7, 2015

Very cool project. I love fiberglass projects. Wow, that tunnel is thick.
Keep the pics coming.

snortonNorton · Apr 7, 2015

manx850 said:
Why not just buy an interstate tank & save all the work....better looking tank anyway, 6 Gallons......

I want to keep the stock look mainly.

snortonNorton · Apr 7, 2015

mschmitz57 said:
What a cool project. I love fiberglass projects. Wow, that tunnel is thick.
Keep the pics coming.

I was surprised how thick this tank was. 1/4 " in some places. The inside bottom of the tank was like new, it must have leaked for the previous owner because there was a couple fiberglass patches underneath.

Hobot · Apr 7, 2015

Florida boat boys know fiberglass mess on all scales. Hope ya can pull it off stylishly and its extra width still allows the bars to swing enough. I know ya could build a whole tank out of just booze resistance Novalac resin so carbon wrap is over kill extra work . Old Norton tanks had a 4" band of metal strap to hold em down so got an flash back image of using alu sheet in the top section. Good to see how robust Norton fg tanks are.

Rohan · Apr 7, 2015

The JPN cafe roadster bikes have a tank that looks like a roadster,
but its been (factory) stretched backwards, by about an extra gallon.
Its steel, of course. And would need an Interstate type seat ?
They are also unobtainium these days...

I can recall seeing a metalwork guy (theres that steel again) cutting a Lav tank in half, horizontally,
and adding about 2" into the height of it.
Once done, it had gained about 2 gals, and couldn't even see it had been done.

Playing with fiberglass these days is a bit of an unknown, can you stop gas eating it ??

Hobot · Apr 8, 2015

One thing CarbonFibre knew and taught us was Novalac resin is alchohol proof, afforable-available and prefect for easy permanent fiberglass. Fg mess is easier than metal working to form and correct errors. If I ever saw my fg tank open I'm thinking to mount sight glass and intern LED.

Nortoniggy · Apr 8, 2015

snortonNorton said:
3.8 lites = 1 imperial gallon.
3.8 liters = 332 cubic inches, so I have to add about 1" thick by 10" wide by 24" long in volume to this tank. That is my goal.

Not sure how much difference it makes but you've mixed your gallons up.
4.55 litres = 1 Imperial gallon
4.55 litres = 278 cubic inches
3.78 litres = 1 US gallon
3.8 litres = 232 cubic inches
I presume 332 is a typo' as your measurements work out to 240 cubic inches.
It just means you won't gain an Imperial gallon.

Ian

kerinorton · Apr 8, 2015

snortonNorton said:
mschmitz57 said:

What a cool project. I love fiberglass projects. Wow, that tunnel is thick.
Keep the pics coming.

Click to expand...

I was surprised how thick this tank was. 1/4 " in some places. The inside bottom of the tank was like new, it must have leaked for the previous owner because there was a couple fiberglass patches underneath.

That's why the steel tank hols about 11 litres and the glass tank holds about 10 litres.
Dereck

snortonNorton · Apr 8, 2015

Not sure how much difference it makes but you've mixed your gallons up.
4.55 litres = 1 Imperial gallon
4.55 litres = 278 cubic inches
3.78 litres = 1 US gallon
3.8 litres = 232 cubic inches
I presume 332 is a typo' as your measurements work out to 240 cubic inches.
It just means you won't gain an Imperial gallon.

Ian[/quote]

Oops your right. 3.8 is a US gallon, I know that, I buy gas in USA all the time. Brain fart.

snortonNorton · Apr 8, 2015

hobot said:
Florida boat boys know fiberglass mess on all scales. Hope ya can pull it off stylishly and its extra width still allows the bars to swing enough. I know ya could build a whole tank out of just booze resistance Novalac resin so carbon wrap is over kill extra work . Old Norton tanks had a 4" band of metal strap to hold em down so got an flash back image of using alu sheet in the top section. Good to see how robust Norton fg tanks are.

I have been thinking about using aluminum pieces on the inside epoxied in to hold it in place, than fill the exterior with epoxy resin fiberglass.
My plan is to now cut the tank in half vertically and widen it by at least 2"-3". It will have to be sort of pie shaped so I can keep the back tank mount area pretty much the same, maybe 1/2" wider. Than when that's done I will cut it again vertically and raise the top half of the tank up about 1".

cjandme · Apr 8, 2015

keep it comming Snortin, interesting project

dynodave · Apr 8, 2015

snortonNorton said:
I know, I'm a little nuts, but most bikers are.
I remember my first bike was an RD350 and I was running out of gas on the 401 highway about 70 miles East of Toronto in the mid 1970's and It was getting dark. I turned off at the next exit turned North and found myself lost and on reserve with no gas station in sight. I was 16 than. I guess that experience has never left and still worries me to this day.
Eleven liters just doesn't do it for me. I am going to try and blow this tank out to close to 15 liters if possible and still keep the original contours. I will be using the new fiberglass gas/alcohol resistant resins and I think I will put one coat of carbon fiber over the whole tank (top & bottom) when I'm finished.
3.8 lites = 1 imperial gallon.
3.8 liters = 332 cubic inches, so I have to add about 1" thick by 10" wide by 24" long in volume to this tank. That is my goal.

Hi Would you mind telling us what is the brand and formulation name of your resin. I have been researching on and off for years to find a fully appropriate gasoline AND alcohol epoxy, polyester, or vinylester resin that meets the necessary UL1316 approval. Several novolac formulas come close but "so far" none of the engineering application sheets confirm suitability for both. I am homing in on a formulation by a large US national chemical company. It so far is the ONLY UL certified gasoline AND alcohol proof formula that I have found. Now I will have to find somewhere I can buy just a 5 gallon pail to do trials.

mschmitz57 · Apr 8, 2015

A gasohol-proof resin would be great and probably exists but you always have the option of sealing a fiberglass tank with Caswell epoxy.
What type of material are gas stations using for underground storage? I thought those were fiberglass.

snortonNorton · Apr 8, 2015

I live in Sarnia Ontario, Canada, know as "Chemical Valley" Just out side of town here is where oil was first discovered (Oil Springs, Oil City) .It has been refined here in Sarnia for over 100 years. Your green garbage bags come from here and much more.
There is an epoxy coating that they use that is extremely hard and orange/red in colour. They line vessels and pipes and parts with it to stop the highly corrosive chemicals from eating through the material. I am trying to get a hold of some or the name of it or it's compounds. It is very thick and is brushed on and can only be removed with a grinder.
I will keep you posted.

dynodave · Apr 8, 2015

snortonNorton said:
I live in Sarnia Ontario, Canada, know as "Chemical Valley" Just out side of town here is where oil was first discovered (Oil Springs, Oil City) .It has been refined here in Sarnia for over 100 years. Your green garbage bags come from here and much more.
There is an epoxy coating that they use that is extremely hard and orange/red in colour. They line vessels and pipes and parts with it to stop the highly corrosive chemicals from eating through the material. I am trying to get a hold of some or the name of it or it's compounds. It is very thick and is brushed on and can only be removed with a grinder.
I will keep you posted.

Thanks
In EVERY application sheet I have reviewed some were acceptable for gasoline and many other nasty chemicals (of no interest to this issue) and others were acceptable for ethanol as well as many other nasty chemicals (of no interest to this issue). But previously I had NEVER found a chemical resistance & application sheet that had BOTH as acceptable. El cheapo polyester resin works fine for gasoline.
But in "most" of USA you can not buy "real" gasoline any more to legally use in a registered motor vehicle. Yes I've bought it at the airport for my chainsaws and guys buy some at race tracks or race gas pumps at gas stations for $10 a gallon.
I have NO interest in that discussion.
In reality I have bought novolac epoxy "marketed" by Caswell, but without knowing what it really is, I am now reluctant to use it. I have looked through DOZENS of novalac epoxy and novalac vinylester blends and still NEVER found one to be really gasohol approved until the one and only one I found a few months ago while doing UL1316 research.

added
HOBOT
"Novalac resin is alchohol proof"

Please show me any....just one......that has BOTH "ethanol" or ethyl alcohol .....AND gasoline that is approved on the companies Application sheet. Isn't this what we' re talking about?

an alcohol is any organic compound in which the hydroxyl functional group (-O H) is bound to a saturated carbon atom
there are easily found 18 different kinds of "alcohol"
polyvinyl alcohol known as PVA is used as a release agent when doing fiberglass work...I have a gallon out in the shop. :mrgreen:

ILLF8ED · Apr 8, 2015

Rohan said:
The JPN cafe roadster bikes have a tank that looks like a roadster,
but its been (factory) stretched backwards, by about an extra gallon.
Its steel, of course. And would need an Interstate type seat ?
They are also unobtainium these days...

Hi Rohan,

The JPN tank is way to ugly to be seen without the fiberglass dummy cover over it. Very crude and amateur attempt on Norton's part to increase capacity.

Cheesy · Apr 8, 2015

snortonNorton said:
hobot said:

Florida boat boys know fiberglass mess on all scales. Hope ya can pull it off stylishly and its extra width still allows the bars to swing enough. I know ya could build a whole tank out of just booze resistance Novalac resin so carbon wrap is over kill extra work . Old Norton tanks had a 4" band of metal strap to hold em down so got an flash back image of using alu sheet in the top section. Good to see how robust Norton fg tanks are.

Click to expand...

I have been thinking about using aluminum pieces on the inside epoxied in to hold it in place, than fill the exterior with epoxy resin fiberglass.
My plan is to now cut the tank in half vertically and widen it by at least 2"-3". It will have to be sort of pie shaped so I can keep the back tank mount area pretty much the same, maybe 1/2" wider. Than when that's done I will cut it again vertically and raise the top half of the tank up about 1".

I would try not to use aluminium in it, I would laminate some glass strips instead. I also looked at doing what you have started and decided it would be easier to start from scratch... kind of. So far I have taken a roadster tank and built it up with plaster to get the shape/size I want, I was going to take a fibreglass tank off it but after seeing Ludwigs hand made steel tank I will have a go at doing that first and using my plaster one as a buck. Also a carbon wrap maybe of limited use, the modulus is that much higher than the glass that if it is loaded to failure it is pretty likely that the load is enough to fracture the glass as well.

snortonNorton · Apr 8, 2015

I was thinking the same. If this doesn't work I can always use it as a mold for a steel or aluminum one, once I get the size right. I was talking to my friend the auto body man tonight, and he thinks I should make the top piece just faux tank shell and make a aluminum or steel tank underneath. Doesn't have to be pretty than, because you won't see it.
:? too many squirrels in my head now.
I'm sticking to my guns, at least until I run out of bullets.

Norton Fiberglass Tank Expansion

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