Normal running temperature for commando engine

ashman · Feb 20, 2025

baz said:
So as per usual no answer
Just like when you stated you'd ridden a standard commando after years of saying you never had!
Then when I asked you which model you had ridden I got no reply
So did any of these things actually happen?
I'm genuinely curious?

Probably the nut behind the handle bars, sorry Al, for someone who hasn't rode a bike for so longggg you seem to know everything, you haven't ridden on a road since you were 29 (your in your mid 80s now), when old bikes had crappy brakes, low HP/power, crappy roads (well nothing has changed there lol) and you keep telling us how well your bitsa race bike is but its been so long since you been on a track and when you did race it was only a few times a year on old bikes you built.
No wonder you have troubles finding a place to race your bike, safety, insurance costs, having a bike that wouldn't pass the safety inspection and the big one, AGE, race tracks have to cover their arses no matter what.
Historical racing is getting too expensive to run these days why not many tracks run them, its a shame really but that's the way things are these days, the risk factor.
Maybe your wife is smart to not let you go racing no more, maybe she knows something you don't, maybe time to upgrade your bike with modern upgrades or let someone else who love to do your bike up instead of talking about how good it was, I love tinkering on my old Norton but I also love taking it out anytime I want instead of talking about it or watching too much YouTube.

acotrel · Feb 21, 2025

Historic racing on Winton Raceway has been stopped because the track has lost it's licence for motorcycles, due to the speeds of modern racing motorcycles. The two places on the circuit which are 'dangerous', are almost impossible to reach with any pre-1972 motorcycle. My mate raced TZ 750 Yamahas there, and he noticed that as he was turning, he was facing a wall in two places. With a race circuit, as hazards are removed, the speeds increase and all that is achieved is the hazards have moved and cause bigger crashes. With my bike on Winton, racing never involved any effort. The only thing which ever hurt me, was the small ripple in the track surface which caught my shoulder when I was sliding down the road after I had been on the top of my head. The only thing which makes racing dangerous for me is other peoples' stupidity. I make allowances for novices, The guy who crashed me WAS NOT a novice - just an idiot. When that happened, there was an ambulance lady who witnessed it - she was beside herself - she thought I was dead.

acotrel · Feb 21, 2025

If I raced again these days, it would never be with a drum front brake. Nearly every crash I have ever had has been due to a drum front brake. When they heat-up they become unreliable. Sometimes you only need to touch the brake and you will crash. It depends on the circuit - how often you use the brake, and how many laps you have done.
I was around when Manx Nortons were the go. I saw one of my friends really bite the dust while leading an A grade road race. After that he only ever competed in scrambles sidecar races. A Manx Norton only has 50 BHP. Most riders of road bikes these days, would probably not be able to ride one successfully without a lot of practice.
Wayne Gardner once road a Manx, when he got off it he was almost in tears. He said 'I did not know what they were riding'.

baz · Feb 21, 2025

acotrel said:
If I raced again these days, it would never be with a drum front brake. Nearly every crash I have ever had has been due to a drum front brake. When they heat-up they become unreliable. Sometimes you only need to touch the brake and you will crash. It depends on the circuit - how often you use the brake, and how many laps you have done.
I was around when Manx Nortons were the go. I saw one of my friends really bite the dust while leading an A grade road race. After that he only ever competed in scrambles sidecar races. A Manx Norton only has 50 BHP. Most riders of road bikes these days, would probably not be able to ride one successfully without a lot of practice.
Wayne Gardner once road a Manx, when he got off it he was almost in tears. He said 'I did not know what they were riding'.

Any particular reason you are talking about racing and not answering my question about your Lucas k2f failure
Or about what type of commando you claimed to have ridden?

acotrel · Feb 21, 2025

The only Commando I have ridden was an early 750. It seemed to be quick enough. One of my friends won a production race with a Commando 850, but I don't think it increased sales. Very few Norton twins were sold in Australia from the 1950s until the mid 70s. I only ever bought my 850 motor, because with the Seeley frame, the bike would resemble a Gus Kuhn racer. I never believed in the 850 motor, so I did not race it until I moved to Benalla, where the race circuit is closer to home and the hospitals. It turned out that I was completely wrong about the motor - with methanol fuel, it is excellent- better than any 1960s Triumph motor. I think the reason we raced mainly Triumphs before the two-strokes arrived - we could not afford a Manx, and there were plenty of secondhand Triumph parts.
I think with the K2F magnetos - as they got older the varnish and capacitors inside them failed. Even when they were reconditioned, they seemed to fail. I still have one which works, under my bench. The SR magnetos last forever and are cheap. Also, the capacitor is external and easily replaced, and the coil is held in by two screws - easy to carry a spare.
With the K2F, if I remember correctly - they fail when they get hot. Getting a bike to a race meeting is too much work for that kind of stupidity to happen. I think I experienced it twice. I would have ridden at race meetings ten times without a problem, with the Lucas SR.
It is a time in my life which I would rather forget.

acotrel · Feb 21, 2025

ashman said:
Probably the nut behind the handle bars, sorry Al, for someone who hasn't rode a bike for so longggg you seem to know everything, you haven't ridden on a road since you were 29 (your in your mid 80s now), when old bikes had crappy brakes, low HP/power, crappy roads (well nothing has changed there lol) and you keep telling us how well your bitsa race bike is but its been so long since you been on a track and when you did race it was only a few times a year on old bikes you built.
No wonder you have troubles finding a place to race your bike, safety, insurance costs, having a bike that wouldn't pass the safety inspection and the big one, AGE, race tracks have to cover their arses no matter what.
Historical racing is getting too expensive to run these days why not many tracks run them, its a shame really but that's the way things are these days, the risk factor.
Maybe your wife is smart to not let you go racing no more, maybe she knows something you don't, maybe time to upgrade your bike with modern upgrades or let someone else who love to do your bike up instead of talking about how good it was, I love tinkering on my old Norton but I also love taking it out anytime I want instead of talking about it or watching too much YouTube.

I realise I have a real problem - I cannot go near my bikes without experiencing extreme feelings of grief. Talking on this forum helps me to get my head straight. When I was a kid, I was doing with my Triumph 650s, what you do with your Commando. I had a friend who had raced and he taught me how to build a race motor. Everywhere we went on motorcycles was a road race. Many years later he was my helper at road race meetings - he was the only other person to ride my Seeley 850 and I had never seen him so happy. He died of heart failure while driving his car. The girl who was with him copped an injured elbow, and a dog in the car his bounced-off was killed. But what went on with his kids at his funeral was an utter disgrace. I am slowly getting better - I can now think about my bike without feeling bad. My first race bike was one that my friend had built and would never sell to me. I eventually sold it back to him in much-modified condition for almost zero. When I first got it, it was impossible to ride - if I blinked, it went sideways, and if I backed-off in corners, I crashed. It was the reason my friend did not race for 25 years.

acotrel · Feb 21, 2025

Ashley, you talk about crappy roads - many racetracks are worse than crappy roads. But on a race track there is usually no oncoming traffic, so you can enter corners fully committed. If you crash, you have usually done it to yourself. And when you practise, you refine your cornering. I would never do anything on a public road in the way I would do it on a race track. If you ever try it, go slow at first and become quicker slowly. You will probably realise how lucky you have been to stay alive.

baz · Feb 21, 2025

acotrel said:
The only Commando I have ridden was an early 750. It seemed to be quick enough. One of my friends won a production race with a Commando 850, but I don't think it increased sales. Very few Norton twins were sold in Australia from the 1950s until the mid 70s. I only ever bought my 850 motor, because with the Seeley frame, the bike would resemble a Gus Kuhn racer. I never believed in the 850 motor, so I did not race it until I moved to Benalla, where the race circuit is closer to home and the hospitals. It turned out that I was completely wrong about the motor - with methanol fuel, it is excellent- better than any 1960s Triumph motor. I think the reason we raced mainly Triumphs before the two-strokes arrived - we could not afford a Manx, and there were plenty of secondhand Triumph parts.
I think with the K2F magnetos - as they got older the varnish and capacitors inside them failed. Even when they were reconditioned, they seemed to fail. I still have one which works, under my bench. The SR magnetos last forever and are cheap. Also, the capacitor is external and easily replaced, and the coil is held in by two screws - easy to carry a spare.
With the K2F, if I remember correctly - they fail when they get hot. Getting a bike to a race meeting is too much work for that kind of stupidity to happen. I think I experienced it twice. I would have ridden at race meetings ten times without a problem, with the Lucas SR.
It is a time in my life which I would rather forget.

So you rode an early commando
Presumably a fastback ? Maybe even a widow maker frame/drum brake/ no cush drive/flimsy swinging arm etc depending how early
Yet you have said many times you've never ridden one
And you can't remember what went wrong with your k2f to make you lose your entry fees ?
Maybe the mag got hot on the way there

acotrel · Feb 22, 2025

You go out in practise and the motor starts missing after a couple of laps, and it does not matter what you do, it cannot be corrected. When that happens, you have lost your entry money and your travelling expenses. Road racing is too expensive for that to happen. A Lucas SR magneto does not have windings and capacitor within an armature. Everything in the SR magneto is easy to replace at a race circuit. The magneto does not need to be sent away for some dud to attempt a repair. In Australia, there used to be only one guy who could successfully repair a K2F. With the SR magneto, I did not even carry a spare capacitor or a coil. It worked perfectly every time. My 500cc Triton used to rev to 10,500 RPM. The racing magneto on a Manx Norton is usually rotating magnet - none of this windings and capacitor in an armature stuff.

acotrel · Feb 22, 2025

The only problem with an SR magneto - it is more difficult to mount it on the motor. I used to have a welded platform under it and an adapter where it needed to seal to the crankcase. It was worth the effort. If you have a miss in the motor, you need to fix it - if the ignition system is suspect, things become much more difficult. I tune my engine by forcing it to miss. When you get the miss, you have gone too far when leaning-off.

acotrel · Feb 22, 2025

That 750 Commando I rode was owned by one of my mates who moved to Western Australia, I had almost forgotten him. I was only on it once, and only for a very short time. Not really long enough to appreciate it.

acotrel · Feb 22, 2025

baz said:
So you rode an early commando
Presumably a fastback ? Maybe even a widow maker frame/drum brake/ no cush drive/flimsy swinging arm etc depending how early
Yet you have said many times you've never ridden one
And you can't remember what went wrong with your k2f to make you lose your entry fees ?
Maybe the mag got hot on the way there

If you race, do you ride your race bike to the circuit ? I have never done that. For me, one of the best parts of a day's racing was when I was driving home with the bike on the trailer and the noise had stopped - especially when I was not in pain.
Somebody on this forum asked me whether I had a K2F, I don't know why I did not sell it to him. How much are they worth these days ? - I still know where it is. I have had it since about 1970. It came off a mate's 1959 Bonneville. I bought a big box full of its road-going stuff from him.

Normal running temperature for commando engine

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