No longer anal about Amals

concours said:

the mixture gets richer as these items wear, and returns to previous settings when replaced.

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Yes, that’s what I was hoping for.

baz said:

What idle speed do you have yours set?
Be careful not to turn it into a cam grinder

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It idles about 1,100 RPM once it is warmed up. That was a cold idle as evidenced by the high oil pressure reading.

baz said:

If amals stayed working the same as the day they were fitted nobody would ever change them
They are great when they are new but that's about all
I'd imagine the premier's are a lot better?
Do the needle jets and needles last any longer with premiers?

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No, but then they are inexpensive. More importantly, the slides and bodies lasted longer with anodized slide when the bodies were still Zn. The AL bodies of Premier carbs with those slides last even longer. Also, I never found a worn-out anodized slide.

The old un-anodized slides lasted around 1/3-1/2 the life of the bodies. When I still sold on eBay my biggest sellers were AMAL major repair kits + slides. Back then a pair of them was over 1/2 the price of a pair of non-Premier carbs so I started recommending replacing the carbs - putting all those new parts in worn bodies was making little sense to me. It's more confusing now with all the AMAL price increases on Premier carbs sets.

Since, in the US at least, I the majority of riders don't do a lot of miles so I think it makes sense to change old carbs to Premier and possibly never need any new carbs/carb parts other than possibly a needle and needle jet somewhere down the road.

Yes, I know some ride a lot. I've bought over 40 Nortons and Triumphs since 2013 and one had 29k miles, one had 13k miles, some had no speedo, and the rest had under 10k miles.

Finally, other carbs also have parts that need to be replaced over time including the needles and jets an in the case of Mikuni and AMAL MK2, the cold start plunger.

I've never had premiers so can't comment
I've never got more than 8000miles out of a set of amal concentrics before they can't be tuned to my liking
By that I mean they'll carry on working but I want them to always hold an idle
If I rev it to 7000rpm then close the throttle I don't expect it to cut out or carry on revving etc
And I don't want that off idle lumpyness that you can get with worn slides
At the end of the day it's horses for courses

marshg246 said:

No, but then they are inexpensive. More importantly, the slides and bodies lasted longer with anodized slide when the bodies were still Zn. The AL bodies of Premier carbs with those slides last even longer. Also, I never found a worn-out anodized slide.

The old un-anodized slides lasted around 1/3-1/2 the life of the bodies. When I still sold on eBay my biggest sellers were AMAL major repair kits + slides. Back then a pair of them was over 1/2 the price of a pair of non-Premier carbs so I started recommending replacing the carbs - putting all those new parts in worn bodies was making little sense to me. It's more confusing now with all the AMAL price increases on Premier carbs sets.

Since, in the US at least, I the majority of riders don't do a lot of miles so I think it makes sense to change old carbs to Premier and possibly never need any new carbs/carb parts other than possibly a needle and needle jet somewhere down the road.

Yes, I know some ride a lot. I've bought over 40 Nortons and Triumphs since 2013 and one had 29k miles, one had 13k miles, some had no speedo, and the rest had under 10k miles.

Finally, other carbs also have parts that need to be replaced over time including the needles and jets an in the case of Mikuni and AMAL MK2, the cold start plunger.

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For what it's worth, I just bought and installed a pair of new Amal Premiers on my 1974 850 MKII. When purchased, the bike had a single Mikuni fitted and ran like a pig, (the carb had apparently suffered the ravages of Ethanol based fuel and been mutilated by a previous owner). I replaced the Mikuni with a pair of "sort of" rebuilt used standard Amals and for the most part the bike ran very nicely. The only (carb related) issue was that the left side insisted on running rather lean. Anyway, I purchased the premiers from Greg Marsh and the bike now runs beautifully! Thank you Greg! Yes, I still have some fine tuning to do and yes I had to play about with the idle screws and idle mixture, but nothing I would consider difficult or unexpected. Greg knew what jets etc worked best for my application and supplied the carbs accordingly.

It seems to me that what is important here is the need to obtain parts from people who know what they are talking about. My pistons and rings are from Jim Schmidt, the installation of which cured my bikes tendency to smoke like a chimney. Jim obviously also knows what he is talking about. I have no doubt the Keihin carbs are awesome, but hopefully with care and ethanol free fuel my Amal Premiers will serve for a long time to come.

We all have our own preferences, nothing wrong with that. My carb related sickness is I like SU's. Have often fantasized about finding one for the Commando.

Britstuff said:

For what it's worth, I just bought and installed a pair of new Amal Premiers on my 1974 850 MKII. When purchased the bike had a single Mikuni fitted and ran like a pig, (the carb had apparently suffered the ravages of Ethanol based fuel and been mutilated by a previous owner). I replaced the Mikuni with a pair of "sort of" rebuilt used standard Amals and for the most part the bike ran very nicely. The only (carb related) issue was that the left side insisted on running rather lean. Anyway, I purchased the premiers from Greg Marsh and the bike now runs beautifully! Thank you Greg! Yes, I still have some fine tuning to do and yes I had to play about with the idle screws and idle mixture, but nothing I would consider difficult or unexpected. Greg knew what jets etc worked best for my application and supplied the carbs accordingly.

It seems to me that what is important here is the need to need to obtain parts from people who know what they are talking about. My pistons and rings are from Jim Schmidt, he obviously also knows what he is talking about. I have no doubt the Keihin carbs are awesome, but hopefully with care and ethanol free fuel my Amal Premiers will serve for a long time to come.

We all have our own preferences, nothing wrong with that. My carb related sickness is I like SU's. Have often fantasized about finding one for the Commando.

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There was one for sale here, a while ago

Thank you Concours. I'm alright for now. Just a recurring fantasy, probably best left unfulfilled.

baz said:

I've never had premiers so can't comment
I've never got more than 8000miles out of a set of amal concentrics before they can't be tuned to my liking
By that I mean they'll carry on working but I want them to always hold an idle
If I rev it to 7000rpm then close the throttle I don't expect it to cut out or carry on revving etc
And I don't want that off idle lumpyness that you can get with worn slides
At the end of the day it's horses for courses

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Agreed 8k-10k and Zn slides at least are worn and maybe needles too. 8k-10k more and it's slides again and needle and jet too. 8k-10k more and it's carbs. In the 70s the carbs were basically normal service parts and cost very little so none of that mattered much. Go forward to the early 2000s and they were expensive and still wearing out. Later anodized slides came out which caused the slides to last MUCH longer and the bodies to not wear as fast. As far as wear goes, the Zn Premiers really meant StayUp floats and anodized slides from new. The AL Premier brought longer life still, factory testing, much better bowl machining, etc.

Even brand new non-premier carbs were hard to get to idle well once they changed to the hidden pilot jet. I the beginning with the pilot jet that screwed into the bottom of the body, they were better at idling and MUCH easier to clean - I have no idea why AMAL changed that!

Of course, all along a pair of AMAL MK2 or Mikuni were nicer to deal with (no ticklers), but they also wear, don't look original, require more than carbs to mount, etc.

It's really about do you want the bike to look original or not. There are MUCH better fuel systems available but of course, they don't look original.

So, absolutely, horses for courses.

All I can really add is that the bike is running great now with the Keihin's and next time I am in the garage working on the Norton it won't be on the carbs.
The Amals are going up on the shelf alongside the points ignition and I will be on the road instead.

Desmopower said:

All I can really add is that the bike is running really great now with the Keihins and next time I am in the garage working on the Norton it won't be on the carbs.
The Amals are going up on the shelf and I will be on the road instead.

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In a box with "Norton Amals" written on the side.

Schwany said:

In a box with "Norton Amals" written on the side.

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Norton Anals

Hi just a question for all you long time Amal users , my 73 norton 750 mk5 has the RH6 head and twin 932 amals it runs really well I just clean the pilot in situ now and then , it starts good, idles at 1000 ,
Should I leave the slides alone or get them anodised ? Or get some anodised ones . I would prefer to leave but just wondered if this would help preserve it . Cheers

Shelby-Right said:

Hi just a question for all you long time Amal users , my 73 norton 750 mk5 has the RH6 head and twin 932 amals it runs really well I just clean the pilot in situ now and then , it starts good, idles at 1000 ,
Should I leave the slides alone or get them anodised ? Or get some anodised ones . I would prefer to leave but just wondered if if this would help preserve it . Cheers

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I'd leave well alone if I were you
You could buy new anodised slides to keep the carbs going for longer
But with Amal irregularities there's a chance the new ones won't fit
And you open up another can of worms

Shelby-Right said:

Hi just a question for all you long time Amal users , my 73 norton 750 mk5 has the RH6 head and twin 932 amals it runs really well I just clean the pilot in situ now and then , it starts good, idles at 1000 ,
Should I leave the slides alone or get them anodised ? Or get some anodised ones . I would prefer to leave but just wondered if if this would help preserve it . Cheers

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If you leave everything alone, then they will eventually wear out by the similar metals from vibration and use. If you order the correct anodized slides and put them in, then the galling of the metals stops. Sleeving them will cost you more than the new slides. IMHO. Each to his own.

I just had my Amal 32’s sleeved in Australia $250 for the pair compared to $1000 for new premier carbs.

How about some show and tell to really drive this thread off road and into a ditch? Sorry for the diversion Desmopower

I had my 930 slides re-sleeved by Mike Gaylord Products. The sleeves made them nice and heavy so they could drop easier in the bores. This one was stuck a little when I went to get it out, but it has been sitting in the bore for 30 years. I gave the slide a little scotch brite clean up and it slides real nice in the bore.

ozcruiser said:

I just had my Amal 32’s sleeved in Australia $250 for the pair compared to $1000 for new premier carbs.

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Is the $1000 you are quoting AUD? Does it include VAT and/or duties? Did you have the bodies, slides, or both sleeved? AMAL anodized slides cost $65 to $85 each in the US.

In the US, you will pay up to $839.45 for the Premier carbs and probably not get the right ones unless you contact me.

baz said:

What metal are your amals made from if not pot metal?
Premiers made of aluminium didn't come out until 2012

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Well Baz my original Amals were zinc pot metal and were completely flogged out at 35K miles I replace them with new Amals in 1979 brought through the Queensland Norton owners club so they did the order, the new ones were a different lighter colour to the old Amals so not sure who they got them through, they are more alloy than zinc in colour.
I have done over 80k miles on these replacement Amals and so far the slide aren't flogged out like the original Amals, in fact they not even lose in the bores only where they slide easy up and down in the bores, I did replace them 14 years ago (when I was having a running problem with the Amals)) with new PWK carbs from Jim when I had spare cash at the time, I was doing other upgrades at the time on my Norton, but as I have said I had troubles with left carb having sticking float so decided to go back to the old Amals.
Before putting them back on a full pull down and replace the jets, needles and idle and air screws and found the left pilot jet passage was fully blocked (so was the cause of my running problem before removing them) after 2 attempts of soaking and poking finally got it unblocked, I also got my mate Paul who is an old Triumph man and Amal person to check out the Amals before putting them back on and he couldn't believe how good they were in the slides, he also knows the full history of my Norton from the first day I brought it new in 76.
I also owned a new 81 Triumph Thunderbird with a single Amal carb on it I clocked up 250k kms on that bike and when I sold it still had the original Amal on it, but the same thing jets and needle were replace every 3 years of service, but the slide was always good, so whether Amals did change to better metal long before 2012, who knows, all I know is my old Amals are fine with very little to no wear on the slides, lucky, freak of a bike, who knows.
My Norton was an everyday rider most of its life till 2013 when I brought a new Thruxton 1200 so now its semi retired just like me but still gets ridden regularly and its running without missing a beat with the old Amals and idles great with the Joe Hunt maggie.

Ashley

Schwany said:

That is what the OP was using before installing the Keihins. See post #18

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Sorry but I seem to have missed that. Rather surprising though.

I know I am old and silly, however I have been programmed to believe German and Japanese quality is better than British or Italian, but American metallurgy is the best. People such as Jim Schmidt and Andy Molnar are a new breed, and more stength to them. Norton were more into racing than road bikes, so it is reasonable to expect more of them. I regret I did not buy a 650SS, Atlas or a P11. Amal carbs go back a long way to a time when very precise tuning did not matter to most of us, except for people such as Francis Beart. An Amal GP carb is a bit different to a concentric.