New to 961?

Raphi said:

I have them (2nd Generation SBN), if you count Switzerland as East of CA...
No more issues with chain or ground clearance, great sound, but had to get used to the look with the upswept angle of the pipes!

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I had no chain rub on my first gen. They mounted the right side 1/2" lower. Although you could notice the difference if you really looked hard enough, I was happy with that. No chain rub with gen 2 either. I did knick the gen ones on a curve once. Right side. I like the looks of the gen 1 better but am satisfied with gen 2. Al little less deep and throaty sounding and a little raspier, but still good. Could just be the angle.

richard-7 said:

https://flic.kr/p/Yq2gkW
These are SBN pipes which touch on bends ( lots of scrape marks) but do not touch chain.

If you zoom in to bottom corner of upsweep you can see the scrapes.

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Yes I can notice the scrapes in the pic. Didn’t go in circle training yet with mine, but with the Motad and they touched both sides. In comparison I measured a noticeable difference with a meter stick. Maybe it depends also how exactly you mount the SBN ones. The mounts are very flexible for correct adjustments...

Raphi said:

Yes I can notice the scrapes in the pic. Didn’t go in circle training yet with mine, but with the Motad and they touched both sides. In comparison I measured a noticeable difference with a meter stick. Maybe it depends also how exactly you mount the SBN ones. The mounts are very flexible for correct adjustments...

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Raphi or Richard,

Do either of you wish to pipe in on which map I should go for? #77 or #90/#91. Again, I have the stock Xpipe and cats with the 2nd gen. SBN's. Thank you!

SgtUSAF80 said:

Raphi or Richard,

Do either of you wish to pipe in on which map I should go for? #77 or #90/#91. Again, I have the stock Xpipe and cats with the 2nd gen. SBN's. Thank you!

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Start with 077. Its my favourite. As long as you have upgraded ignition and bin file. And you have the 0116 revision. Otherwise 091 is better.

091 is great too. But its a tad rich. Easy starting too.

Ive been back to back with 091 and 077 and I really cant make up my mind which is better. There is something about each I like but cant seem to figure out overall which is the better choice. Ive stuck with 077 since August and am very happy.

richard-7 said:

Start with 077. Its my favourite. As long as you have upgraded ignition and bin file. And you have the 0116 revision. Otherwise 091 is better.

091 is great too. But its a tad rich. Easy starting too.

Ive been back to back with 091 and 077 and I really cant make up my mind which is better. There is something about each I like but cant seem to figure out overall which is the better choice. Ive stuck with 077 since August and am very happy.

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Sgt Both BritTwit and myself and I think Britfan60 had flat spots with 077 that dissapeared with the 090 series maps. I am sure Britfan60 will chime in on this so I don't mean to speak for him!

richard-7 said:

Start with 077. Its my favourite. As long as you have upgraded ignition and bin file. And you have the 0116 revision. Otherwise 091 is better.

091 is great too. But its a tad rich. Easy starting too.

Ive been back to back with 091 and 077 and I really cant make up my mind which is better. There is something about each I like but cant seem to figure out overall which is the better choice. Ive stuck with 077 since August and am very happy.

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Okay.....#77 and #91 are now running neck and neck with 2 votes each.....which one will take the lead?

SgtUSAF80 said:

Okay.....#77 and #91 are now running neck and neck with 2 votes each.....which one will take the lead?

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Sgt, where are you located, I wish everyone would put put their location in their signature. What is good advice for someone in the US may be bad advice for someone downunder!. Based on your bike I would assume Canada and you Know what they say about Assuming.

Also read Richards recommendation carefully. He states use 077 if you sent your ECU out for the new bin file and operating system which I am quite sure you did not do?

Now I see Munroe Motors so I would guess California?

That's why it's important to know if the silencers are Dominator Sport or Torquer.
With catted Xpipe and Torquers you might be able to get good performance with the 077 map.
But if your silencers are Sports then your best bet will be the 090 map.
The original silencers were stamped clearly with DS or DT, but Sgt indicated his silencers were marked only with SBN.

Sgt my surging with the original OEM map and Dominator Sports occurred when cruising at a constant 4000-4200 RPM.
It was very noticeable and felt to me like detonation. Had me very concerned.
The change to 077 map fixed the serving but still had bad cold starting, and cold idling, and cold operation between 3200-4200RPM
Map 090 was a big improvement for all issues. Prior to the demise of SBN, I spoke with Carlos and he also indicated that the best map for the Dominator Sports silencers was 090.

If you have the surging like I did, then you are experiencing a very lean condition, which probably means that your silencers are Sports.
In this case I agree with BPHORSEGUY you will probably be better off with the 090 map.

I had serious flat spot for years between 3,200-3,400. Got worse with miles clocking up. Then I started switching cam sensors with my dads two 961’s. And what happened was the flat spot moved in the rev range by a hundred or 2. I put them in seperate bags marking the rev range. I could repeat the flat everytime when using the marked sensor. This then led down the road of a cam sensor replacement which, as you know, I ultimately discovered a perfect sensor. In fact I understand now norton is using this on their new models ( not sure how true this is). This process took me about 2 months from starting to try different ones to finally finding one that worked great.

I have about 8 maps from all sorts of sources given to me. And sorry to say. But its between 091 and 077 and like I said. If you do everything ive done, then chances are you will be happy with either. But I’m leaning towards 077 (slightly).

The reason I started looking for temp sensors was because I park my bike in the sun with a cover over it at work. When its hot, I had an embarrassing time starting the bike. I had a system that entailed pretending I thought someone said something I couldnt hear so It seemed like I shut the bike off to listen. Knowing the second attempt would work for sure. Had to be a temp sensor somewhere. Starting with head temp it worked ( for me). Problem solved. Hence why i call it a trial. What works for me in Canada with 91 ethanol free fuel and the way I ride and parking conditions may differ to others. So I never once promised the world. But... so far MOST people also noticed a difference. Even Norton Factory (apparently)

so try it yourself but don’t get hung up on maps. Choose 091 and be done with thinking further. Its clearly the better one for most people. But to me, the maps are the easy part. The map on its own is only part of the puzzle.

BritTwit said:

That's why it's important to know if the silencers are Dominator Sport or Torquer.
With catted Xpipe and Torquers you might be able to get good performance with the 077 map.
But if your silencers are Sports then your best bet will be the 090 map.
The original silencers were stamped clearly with DS or DT, but Sgt indicated his silencers were marked only with SBN.

Sgt my surging with the original OEM map and Dominator Sports occurred when cruising at a constant 4000-4200 RPM.
It was very noticeable and felt to me like detonation. Had me very concerned.
The change to 077 map fixed the serving but still had bad cold starting, and cold idling, and cold operation between 3200-4200RPM
Map 090 was a big improvement for all issues. Prior to the demise of SBN, I spoke with Carlos and he also indicated that the best map for the Dominator Sports silencers was 090.

If you have the surging like I did, then you are experiencing a very lean condition, which probably means that your silencers are Sports.
In this case I agree with BPHORSEGUY you will probably be better off with the 090 map.

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Fred, Carlos told me that when SBN went to the 2nd generation silencers they did away with the 2 different models. He was vague on mapping differences, didn't really seem to matter to him!

I have used 4 different exhaust now ( 2 custom and freer flowing ) and I have found the 090 series better with all 4. Remember I don't think any of us have the new bin and operating system that Richard refers to

Ps

To add to this, a cat system can get clogged if too rich. So run it hot. Keep revs above 4,000rpm. Switch gears around 5,000-6,000. Keep the cats clean.

richard-7 said:

But to me, the maps are the easy part. The map on its own is only part of the puzzle.

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Richard, I think you are forgetting that most of us do not have a dealer nearby and the situation is getting worse not better. My dealer is a 5 hour round trip ride on miserable roads for the most part so changing maps is an ordeal! For many it is halfway across the country!

Ship the ECU you say? I am very reluctant to ship a part that at best would be very difficult to source and take a lot of time with my bike basically an expensive paper weight. And don't forget the dealer must have a suitable donor bike available! When I do ship it I insure it for like a gazzilion $$ so if there was a problem they would make every effort to locate it. I have shipped hundreds of times with zero problems, but when it comes to our Nortons, I think many of us are a little OCD!

BPHORSEGUY said:

Fred, Carlos told me that when SBN went to the 2nd generation silencers they did away with the 2 different models. He was vague on mapping differences, didn't really seem to matter to him!

I have used 4 different exhaust now ( 2 custom and freer flowing ) and I have found the 090 series better with all 4. Remember I don't think any of us have the new bin and operating system that Richard refers to

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What a great site with some very passionate and knowledgeable people! Ignition coil, cam and temp sensors replaced with Bosch. Updated Factory Map done 10/2016. I live in Northern California and can ride for hours without touching a freeway. So...almost none of my riding will be at a constant RPM range. Whatever Map fills the bill is fine with me.

BPHORSEGUY said:

Richard, I think you are forgetting that most of us do not have a dealer nearby and the situation is getting worse not better. My dealer is a 5 hour round trip ride on miserable roads for the most part so changing maps is an ordeal! For many it is halfway across the country!

Ship the ECU you say? I am very reluctant to ship a part that at best would be very difficult to source and take a lot of time with my bike basically an expensive paper weight. And don't forget the dealer must have a suitable donor bike available! When I do ship it I insure it for like a gazzilion $$ so if there was a problem they would make every effort to locate it. I have shipped hundreds of times with zero problems, but when it comes to our Nortons, I think many of us are a little OCD!

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Yeah, I for sure get that. Jonathan Reece is a good USA resource. OR .... Order a cable from norton and do it yourself.

BPHORSEGUY said:

Fred, Carlos told me that when SBN went to the 2nd generation silencers they did away with the 2 different models. He was vague on mapping differences, didn't really seem to matter to him!

I have used 4 different exhaust now ( 2 custom and freer flowing ) and I have found the 090 series better with all 4. Remember I don't think any of us have the new bin and operating system that Richard refers to

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ALL dealers had new BIN since jan 2016 so good chance if you had a remap since then the BIN was part of it. They just might not have made it a big deal.

Richard, You are mentioning temp sensors, do you squeeze on the front plastic wire tab, front to back or side to side? I have had 4 people try to remove mine including 2 pro wrenches, I think its seized. I'm not having an issue, I just wanted to shoot it with some cleaner and maybe a little die electric grease based on your recommendation. Maybe 1 of your great pics, I'm not the only one having this issue!

BPHORSEGUY said:

Richard, You are mentioning temp sensors, do you squeeze on the front plastic wire tab, front to back or side to side? I have had 4 people try to remove mine including 2 pro wrenches, I think its seized. I'm not having an issue, I just wanted to shoot it with some cleaner and maybe a little die electric grease based on your recommendation. Maybe 1 of your great pics, I'm not the only one having this issue!

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I’ll try to make a manual on this.

- Pull the metal u shape side safety pin
- the electrical plug can be removed
- use a wrench and unscrew the sensor at the base of the sensor.

richard-7 said:

ALL dealers had new BIN since jan 2016 so good chance if you had a remap since then the BIN was part of it. They just might not have made it a big deal.

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My dealer is not as savvy as yours, they didn't even know they had the 090 series maps until I told them where to look. They don't know what a BIN is? Is the cable propietery, some bikes I have use just a printer cable! And if I could get the cable where would I ( we ) source the maps and other software, my dealer isn't sharing his?

richard-7 said:

I’ll try to make a manual on this.

- Pull the metal u shape side safety pin
- the electrical plug can be removed
- use a wrench and unscrew the sensor at the base of the sensor.

Click to expand...

Ok, it is the first part I am having trouble with, there is a safety pin? I have just been trying to pull the plug off per Iwilson. I realize the sensor is threaded, I just haven't got that far yet!