New Conical valve springs

swooshdave said:

CNW said:

Seriosly JS. You hijack a thread that talks about a product that Comstock is bringing to market, to promote your own parts !!

Bad form

If Jim was knocking your specific parts, it's one thing to respond, but to just come on here and talk about what you have available and pretty much make a sales pitch, is not cool.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

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I think we're use to it now.

Plus he does make some interesting comparisons.

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I know Dave....it happens all the time but that doesnt make it right

If it was just a comparison, that would be one thing. It just looks like a self promotion to me though. But that's my opinion of course

What will be interesting is if Jim posts the test results for the JS springs compared to the Conical spring

That is something that would be beneficial for all to see. Comstock never sets out to knock other vendors parts. He just does objective testing to determine what will work the best for our Commandos

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

CNW said:

Seriosly JS. You hijack a thread that talks about a product that Comstock is bringing to market, to promote your own parts !!

Bad form

If Jim was knocking your specific parts, it's one thing to respond, but to just come on here and talk about what you have available and pretty much make a sales pitch, is not cool.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

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Thank you, Matt.

Matt - you are making a mistake. Comstock is indeed putting down my beehive spring product by making misleading statements and I am trying to set the record straight - not promote the product as you say.

Fast Eddie asks if the conical springs have any advantage over the beehive springs. Comstock says "yes" and goes on to say that the advantages of his spring over Beehive springs are the following:

"They will be a drop in with no machining necessary.
They have a custom Ti retainer that correctly fits the odd taper of the Norton collets.
They will come in two rates -one for street use and one for high rpm race
motors."

Comstock is implying that the JS Beehive springs do not drop in, do not fit the collets and do not come in race and street rates.

None of this is true and that is why I responded -it was to defend my product against Comstock's misleading statements. I go on to explain that the beehive spring and valve kit does indeed drop in without machining. I then explain that the current retainers do indeed fit the Norton collet taper and I show the tool I use to cut this taper. I also explain that the JS Beehive kit comes in street rates as well as racing rates. I show photos to back it up.

If Comstock had not posted misleading statements I would not have said anything. But he did and I responded with the truth. If you (Matt) and Comstock want to promote a product -then do it honestly without trying to hurt another vendor.

Ugh, who is actually testing their products over 8 grand about any chance they get? If this town ain't big enough for more than one hi end valve train I say its time for a show down by spintron and dyno to only one standing. I've read more tales of 60's-70's technology Norton used above 8grand anger than last few decades so what gives?



here's a view of what is tolerated in current hi end push rods for sense of how stable-controlled comnoz spintron views still are just over 7 grand with another 1000 or more rpm still to go go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_REQ1PUM0rY

CNW said:

Seriosly JS. You hijack a thread that talks about a product that Comstock is bringing to market, to promote your own parts !!

Bad form

If Jim was knocking your specific parts, it's one thing to respond, but to just come on here and talk about what you have available and pretty much make a sales pitch, is not cool.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

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Perhaps a PM to JimS might have been better form, Matt. I won't condone JimS, and you are correct that he can be a bit flagrant, but now the thread is really going off. What were we talking about?

These springs sort of begged the question of comparison, particularly when the JS beehives have proven to be an excellent upgrade. Comnoz hints at commercialism but really does not cross the line, and his offering, as generous as they are hint at exclusiveness.

That being said, and for all parties concerned, it's a free country and an open forum.
I think it's best not to blackball anyone less we, ourselve, get cought up in a witch hunt.

But what if she floats? Can we have a witch hunt then? :mrgreen:

swooshdave said:

But what if she floats? Can we have a witch hunt then? :mrgreen:

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For goodness sake Dave, witches are burned, but wood is also burned, and wood floats, but ducks also float, so, if someone weighs the same as a duck, he's made of wood, therefore, he's a witch. BURN HIM!

pete.v said:

CNW said:

Seriosly JS. You hijack a thread that talks about a product that Comstock is bringing to market, to promote your own parts !!

Bad form

If Jim was knocking your specific parts, it's one thing to respond, but to just come on here and talk about what you have available and pretty much make a sales pitch, is not cool.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

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Perhaps a PM to JimS might have been better form, Matt. I won't condone JimS, and you are correct that he can be a bit flagrant, but now the thread is really going off. What were we talking about?

These springs sort of begged the question of comparison, particularly when the JS beehives have proven to be an excellent upgrade. Comnoz hints at commercialism but really does not cross the line, and his offering, as generous as they are hint at exclusiveness.

That being said, and for all parties concerned, it's a free country and an open forum.
I think it's best not to blackball anyone less we, ourselve, get cought up in a witch hunt.

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You're giving advice about form now? Thanx for the laugh. I've bought a lot of high end shit for my bike but no JS stuff. Now I know why.

Snorton74 said:

You're giving advice about form now? Thanx for the laugh.

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Oh god no. I was just suprised it came from places I didn't expect. Knowing right from wrong and choosing to act accordingly are 2 different thing. Of this i'm sure you are aware.

Snorton74 said:

I've bought a lot of high end shit for my bike but no JS stuff. Now I know why.

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Really now, you flatter me. My power of influance is increasing. Thank you.
I might suggest when buying high end shit for your bike, you may want to practice principals before personalities. It would be ashame to come in second place just because of me.

Deleted.

When I read about Comstock new springs I was exactly wondering about the JS springs, which Comstock did NOT mention and JS came through with the answer. I did not hear any put down of other's product although if I did, this is the right place to hear such opinions. I want to hear more about new/existing spring and valvetrain tech and less about proper forum use. I'll decide what to read or ignore myself.

When do we get to see a Titanium Valve on the Spintron?

kentvander said:

When I read about Comstock new springs I was exactly wondering about the JS springs, which Comstock did NOT mention and JS came through with the answer. I did not hear any put down of other's product although if I did, this is the right place to hear such opinions. I want to hear more about new/existing spring and valvetrain tech and less about proper forum use. I'll decide what to read or ignore myself.

When do we get to see a Titanium Valve on the Spintron?

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I will eventually get there.

Right now I have an 86C cam in the spintron along with conical springs and am trying to get it to stay stable over 8000 rpm.
I have some steel pushrods on the way to see if there is any help there.

I have a feeling that if I want to use 8500 rpm I will need to go to the cam that is in your bike. Jim

kentvander said:

When I read about Comstock new springs I was exactly wondering about the JS springs, which Comstock did NOT mention and JS came through with the answer. I did not hear any put down of other's product although if I did, this is the right place to hear such opinions. I want to hear more about new/existing spring and valvetrain tech and less about proper forum use. I'll decide what to read or ignore myself.

When do we get to see a Titanium Valve on the Spintron?

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It sounds like you are wanting to see a Ti valve on the Spintron. I would also be interested in seeing a Ti valve being tested as I have heard they can break. But the XR Harley people say that can go for a season easily. A Ti valve would be lighter and change the results of the conical (beehive or straight) valve spring.

For those interested, there's an interesting thread here on valve springs

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/v ... wn.553482/

Partway down the thread there are some good general discussions of valve spring types, including straight, beehive, and conical.

Ken

jseng1 said:

kentvander said:

When I read about Comstock new springs I was exactly wondering about the JS springs, which Comstock did NOT mention and JS came through with the answer. I did not hear any put down of other's product although if I did, this is the right place to hear such opinions. I want to hear more about new/existing spring and valvetrain tech and less about proper forum use. I'll decide what to read or ignore myself.

When do we get to see a Titanium Valve on the Spintron?

Click to expand...

It sounds like you are wanting to see a Ti valve on the Spintron. I would also be interested in seeing a Ti valve being tested as I have heard they can break. But the XR Harley people say that can go for a season easily. A Ti valve would be lighter and change the results of the conical (beehive or straight) valve spring.

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You would think that they would survive now days, they are used in most of the four stroke motorcross bikes, although they are probably smaller than a Norton sized valve.

Cheesy said:

jseng1 said:

kentvander said:

When I read about Comstock new springs I was exactly wondering about the JS springs, which Comstock did NOT mention and JS came through with the answer. I did not hear any put down of other's product although if I did, this is the right place to hear such opinions. I want to hear more about new/existing spring and valvetrain tech and less about proper forum use. I'll decide what to read or ignore myself.

When do we get to see a Titanium Valve on the Spintron?

Click to expand...

It sounds like you are wanting to see a Ti valve on the Spintron. I would also be interested in seeing a Ti valve being tested as I have heard they can break. But the XR Harley people say that can go for a season easily. A Ti valve would be lighter and change the results of the conical (beehive or straight) valve spring.

Click to expand...

You would think that they would survive now days, they are used in most of the four stroke motorcross bikes, although they are probably smaller than a Norton sized valve.

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There seems to be a pretty good market for stainless valves to replace the Ti valves in some of the new MX bikes. I hear there life is somewhat short but I have no direct experience.

I used to use Ti valves on my racebike. I found out the hard way that they needed to be replaced a couple times per season on my bike.

I like the idea that now with the spintron and camera I can actually see what is likely to work before I take it out and break stuff. Jim

comnoz said:

There seems to be a pretty good market for stainless valves to replace the Ti valves in some of the new MX bikes. I hear there life is somewhat short but I have no direct experience.

I used to use Ti valves on my racebike. I found out the hard way that they needed to be replaced a couple times per season on my bike.

I like the idea that now with the spintron and camera I can actually see what is likely to work before I take it out and break stuff. Jim

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You are probably right, its funny in the dirt bike world just before the fast 4st came out 2st was considered expensive to maintain and had short rebuild times.... they arent nothing compared to the new 4st bikes! The old Husaberg I have has a 100hr rebuild time for MX or 200 for enduro/trail and Im sure the newer more powerful bikes are way closer to the edge of reliability

With all the flexing going on around the tip of the valve I wonder how much that contributed to the valve bounce. Elsewhere in the forum there is a post about "Eye Candy Rocker Arms" that would be a wonderful test of what Roller Tip benefits would be.
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r63 ... el/002.jpg

kentvander said:

With all the flexing going on around the tip of the valve I wonder how much that contributed to the valve bounce. Elsewhere in the forum there is a post about "Eye Candy Rocker Arms" that would be a wonderful test of what Roller Tip benefits would be.
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r63 ... el/002.jpg

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We ran those in the 500 Norton USS for a while but they break in their current form. Further work with Professor Gordon Blair we found these to be very flexible too flexible. I think a steel version of the roller tip is worth looking into.

Hi Jim, any more video/info to come our way?
Regards Mike