New Brake Pads!

Quick googling and found several posts stating one way to test what fluid is....take an eye-dropper/syringe etc to remove for small amount of the current fluid, put into a small glass/test-tube/shot-glass of clean water. Stir or shake...Gylcol types should mix fully, while silicone type will form a layer. And yes, most Silicone brands are typically purple to help distinguish them (though not all brands are).

See if it lifts paint off something you don't mind wrecking?

concours said:

"Your front brake is the difference between life and death"

Truth.

OP, If you don't yet understand that, then you haven't yet understood the physics, and, haven't yet looked the grim reaper in the eye, and muttered "not today you bastard"

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"Not today you bastard", or any other!

I am not a racer, so have not experienced the physics as such a one would, but I have indeed looked the Grim Reaper in the eye, and I'm still here to show for it. Had I not the heart or balls for it, I would be no more! In those moments there is clarity.

I grabbed my disc in a four jaw chuck, turned the chrome off with a carbide insert.
Both sides.
Smooth and pulsation free.
45,000 miles ago.

Cost was zero.

kommando said:

Yes including a flush through with fast evaporating solvent, but I am on West Coast of Scotland where the air is always humid.

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The car spent it's life within 200 metres of the beach until we moved to France in 2016!

acotrel said:

I suggest with disc pads, you need to keep buying them until you find some which work. Your front brake is the difference between life and death. The first Suzuki RG500s had chromium plated aluminium discs. The chromium used to spall. So Ross Barelli's father made two discs out of grey cast iron which gave much better stopping. The discs exploded off the bike as Ross was approaching Murrays Corner at Bathurst. He died in the spectator area.
My Seeley 850 has two Suzuki high speed steel discs with Lockheed AP callipers, up front. The only pads which are really effective are ancient asbestos type. I tried a few different types. There is a cast iron disc on the back of my bike which needs to be replaced, but I rarely ever use it.

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The bike or the brake?

Tornado said:

I believe DOT 5.1 silicone fluid was developed for military applications to avoid regular fluid changes out in the field from water contamination. Though somewhat popular with sports/classic car owners (no risk of paint damage from spillage & no water absorption), it does have issues with water separation, leading to potential for corrosion in the lines. Also been found to froth more than the gycol based fluids...potentially a serious issue for ABS systems.

If changing to a different fluid, very important to replace all the rubber seals in the MC & calipers as they will not work so good when switching between gylcol and silicone types of fluid.
Maybe worth looking for a way to test/verify what you have in there currently before just replacing with DOT3 or 4?

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DOT 5.1 is not Silicone.

DOT 5.0 Is Silicone. Do not confuse and do not mix.

Silicone fluid is also compressible, which means more pedal/lever travel, not good for big heavy cars with larger fluid volumes. Don't use it in your big Jag etc. I have never used it on a motorcycle.

No ABS in 1956. Single system, no complex dual or cross over systems.

Changed all the rubber and fitted copper based brake lines when I first used it.

Not sure what you mean by water 'separation', other than if there is moisture inside the system, it will 'remain separate' from the silicone fluid. If it hasn't been absorbed, it can't separate.

That water could obviously cause an issue.

concours said:

I grabbed my disc in a four jaw chuck, turned the chrome off with a carbide insert.
Both sides.
Smooth and pulsation free.
45,000 miles ago.

Cost was zero.

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Come on! A lathe big enough to have a 4-jaw big enough for a disc, space for the lathe, a carbide insert, power, and time are free?

You mentioned a kitted re-sleeved master cylinder. I had two such MCs fail on my Commando. One occurred overnight in the garage - one day the brake worked fine, next morning, when I went to ride, the brake lever went to the bar. No leakage/MC had proper amount of fluid. The other occurred on the road. Worked fine at the first stoplight, but failed at the next stoplight - lever went to the bar/NO front brake. Same thing, MC was full/no leaks. In both cases the MC was re-sleeved by known suppliers of re-sleeved MCs. Based on my experience, I would never install/use a re-sleeved MC on any vehicle.

After that second experience (...Fool me twice, shame on ME!) I went with the CNW Brembo MC and the CNW adapter that allows fitment of the original switchgear. With Ferodo Platinum pads, rebuilt OEM caliper, new braided SS brake lines and DOT 4 fluid, the front brake stops/feels like a modern motorcycle (absent ABS, of course).

For those who are concerned about rust - here is my rotor . Blanchard ground by Truedisc some years ago . Sat in a box along with another for a few years until I finished my Commando a couple years ago . This shot was taken this morning and bike has not been ridden since November. I live at the seashore in NJ - the corrosion capital of the universe.

Rust never a problem.
Edit- what you see at the 5 o’clock position is a reflection.

marshg246 said:

Come on! A lathe big enough to have a 4-jaw big enough for a disc, space for the lathe, a carbide insert, power, and time are free?

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You caught me lying again Greg.

I've not done any of this.

Just an armchair engineer with degrees in unrelated disciplines.

There's a give away program for those that can't afford machine tools. Haven't you heard?

concours said:

You caught me lying again Greg.

I've not done any of this.

Just an armchair engineer with degrees in unrelated disciplines.

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I don't think you are lying - I believe you did it - it's simply not free - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, seemed very clear to me.

concours said:

There's a give away program for those that can't afford machine tools. Haven't you heard?

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I know your feelings about how unprofessional I am for not having a lathe or mill. Trust me, it's not a money issue - it's a space issue - my 32x24 shop is simply not big enough for them and all the bikes I'm working on. No, when I built the shop, the county would not allow it to be bigger in any dimension.

marshg246 said:

I don't think you are lying - I believe you did it - it's simply not free - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, seemed very clear to me.

I know your feelings about how unprofessional I am for not having a lathe or mill. Trust me, it's not a money issue - it's a space issue - my 32x24 shop is simply not big enough for them and all the bikes I'm working on. No, when I built the shop, the county would not allow it to be bigger in any dimension.

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No, you really have no idea.

I have no feelings.

Moreover, there are many things I simply don't give a flying rats ass about.

I used a lathe belonging to a customer.
A favor, in return for favor.


Just adding to the discussion, that, there are options, besides simply throwing fistfuls of hundreds at the wooden brakes issue.

You erroneously ASSUME every image I post with a machine tool in it, I own.

Edfury828 said:

"Not today you bastard", or any other!

I am not a racer, so have not experienced the physics as such a one would, but I have indeed looked the Grim Reaper in the eye, and I'm still here to show for it. Had I not the heart or balls for it, I would be no more! In those moments there is clarity.

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My friend who was CEO of Winton Raceway, was incredulous when I told him 'motorcycle road racing is safe'. - It is 'safe' when the risks are minimised to a tolerable level. Where I worked, we made nitroglycerine by the batch process. I did not go into the nitration house more often than I was required. It was quite strange, there was probably 100 Kg of nitroglycerine there, and it was ostensibly safe. While I was inside the building, the thought that I could be instantly vaporised never entered my head. I have sometimes wondered - if that happened, would you know you had ever been here ? - So is it of any consequence ?
In London during the Blitz, the German bombs were booby-trapped to kill the bomb disposal people.

I am sad every time I think about Pokes Cycle closing up... been twenty years now. That shop did have a lathe big enough to swing a Norton rotor. Pre-CNC, power cross feed, three and four-jaw chucks. Ran on three-phase power. Machine shops used to occasionally come buy to use that lathe's 24" swing and 6' bed. Sat right next to the pin fitter. Those days are gone. There is almost nobody doing that sort of custom machine work anymore, at least in Seattle. They are all busy twiddling bits over at Google.

marshg246 said:

Come on! A lathe big enough to have a 4-jaw big enough for a disc, space for the lathe, a carbide insert, power, and time are free?

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And don't forget the workshop needed to house the lathe ;-)

SteveA said:

DOT 5.1 is not Silicone.

DOT 5.0 Is Silicone. Do not confuse and do not mix.

Silicone fluid is also compressible, which means more pedal/lever travel, not good for big heavy cars with larger fluid volumes. Don't use it in your big Jag etc. I have never used it on a motorcycle.

No ABS in 1956. Single system, no complex dual or cross over systems.

Changed all the rubber and fitted copper based brake lines when I first used it.

Not sure what you mean by water 'separation', other than if there is moisture inside the system, it will 'remain separate' from the silicone fluid. If it hasn't been absorbed, it can't separate.

That water could obviously cause an issue.

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My bad on the 5 vs 5.1 designation mix up. I blame the blokes that thought those up.

By water separation, I simply mean there will be two seperate phases, water and the silicone, they will not mix. Just like oil and water will not mix and form separate layers.

Actually, a single disc is probably not enough to stop a Commando in full flight, but any disc is better than a drum. When I first raced my Seeley, it had a single chromed Suzuki disc off a GS1000. I got into a corner too hot, but I was still able to recover without leaving the bitumen. That is when I bought the second calliper and two steel discs. My brake lever is intended to be used with one calliper, but operates two. The brake is one finger and extremely reliable. The only pads which worked were asbestos composition. I tried carbon race pads - they were hopeless - I probably needed to be doing 200 MPH.
Where Ross Barelli was killed, several years ealier, my mate found he could not stop his Triton - drum brake. It does not matter which way you turn, the escape road went off at the same angle as the circuit. He chose to go around, and stayed on. Then the bike bounced him off the fence at the top of the mountain, and broke his arm and a leg. These days, only cars race at Bathurst - there is a chicane where Ross was killed.

concours said:

No, you really have no idea.

I have no feelings.

Moreover, there are many things I simply don't give a flying rats ass about.

I used a lathe belonging to a customer.
A favor, in return for favor.


Just adding to the discussion, that, there are options, besides simply throwing fistfuls of hundreds at the wooden brakes issue.

You erroneously ASSUME every image I post with a machine tool in it, I own.

Shit stirrers. They are everywhere.

You know, with a canoe paddle.... then they step back, cover their mouth, and look shocked.... knowing damned well they achieved their shit stirring goal. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/shit-stirrer Everywhere.., Work Family Friends Online Instead of letting things be peaceful, they need to...

www.accessnorton.com

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Come on boys, calm down, its only old motorbikes we are talking about here.
That said, i can see both points of view. If you haven't got the space for said Lathe,Mill,Drill etc you have to get things machined by another route. If you have the Machines (or access to them) and the skill to use them then the result is in your hands. Using someone elses skill to do the job will carry a cost (money and/or favours) That said, i'm in the machine tool owner category. Having said lathe (actually 4 of them, but one is basically an ornament! ) comes into its own in a huge amount of ways. I have done a vast array of jobs from truing fork lift truck brake drums to Clockmaking all on the same machine. If you have the machine and the skill to use it, people will beat a path to your door. My machine tools do carry a cost (to buy, to run, to house etc) but they always pay for themselves many times over in the year.
It was interesting to find out how much Greg pays to get his discs ground. Only a couple of weeks ago i ground a T160 disc to remove the worn chrome for a customer, and with the machine set up to grind discs i went through the half dozen scabby commando discs that i had gathered up since i last had a grinding session.
When i was working for a living and someone asked me to do a guvvy, (a job or favour) i always considered what they could do for me. If they didn't or couldn't do anything for me, the cost of the job went up as they couldn't repay the favour (for me doing the Guvvy)
Back to the OP problem
Be aware some brake pads can take a lot of time to bed in and work. 3 yrs ago I put a set of new, old stock, pads in the front and then set off for the national rally in Scotland. 10 miles up the road i almost turned back and put the old set back in! The disc was getting very hot and it wasn't stopping. But i carried on and gradually they settled down (but never worked as well as the old ones) When i got home i changed back to the previous spec pads but new ones.

It's not realistic to expect the average rider to have a lathe. However, chrome disks do need to be de-chromed. Most auto shops (at least the better ones) should be able to turn the disks.