MK II Brake Upgrades on a Budget

gortnipper said:

What I did was fit two strips of 80 grit sandpaper inside the drum with masking tape. Reassemble the drum with no lube. Back on the bike and run in first gear on the stand pressing the brake pedal for a while. Pull and inspect. Repeat until you see full contact. Remove, clean thoroughly, lube and reinstall and you are all good to go.

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I've been doing that for years. It really does work. I use the sticky backed sandpaper used in body shops on the long sanding boards.

Brithit said:

I've been doing that for years. It really does work. I use the sticky backed sandpaper used in body shops on the long sanding boards.

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To be clear, this is eroding the pads, not the drum surface, correct?

Tornado said:

The soft brake lever feel is indicative of micro bubbles trapped within system the stock caliper and MC are commonly hard to bleed fully. Mine was same after full rebuild, sleeving to 13mm MC. After much, much effort, reverse bleedings, overnight waits with lever tied fully held in, etc etc, after several days of no joy, what finally solved it was my rapid flicking the lever in much frustration, like 50+ times, while watching the fluid in the MC from above. Eventually saw two or three micro bubbles float up out the tiny holes in the reservoir bottom. Lever was then nice and firm, has remained so for three season with regular fluid changes.

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Soft brake wasn't the problem that day.
The problem was overheated brakes. The lever came up hard but the bike kept rolling, virtually no braking at all.
My stock MK3 relied on a grand total of 9.46 sq inches of friction material contact area, front +rear.
The Vincent has 120 sq. inches front + rear.
Disc brakes cool better than drum, just not 12 times better!

When I bought my Norton new the front brakes was very good and had no problems locking the front wheel to lift the rear end, yes young and silly 17 years old at the time, but as the brakes got older was when they were showing their faults and such little disc pads and as time goes by the chrome coming off the disc made them ever worst to the point they only slowed you down just, I had rebuilt the whole front brake system a few times and replaced the stock disc, still not perfect but better, then 12 years ago the front brake let me down in a big way when I really needed them and spat me off on a slow accident when a car pulled out on me and I got injured with broken bones, while recovering I decided to replace the whole front brake system as I woke up that great brakes are worth the money spent as my life is very important to me, I went with a whole Grimica system from RGM and at the time was under $600 for the whole system and I can tell you was the best thing I ever done to my Norton for safety wise, one finger operation if you want and stops pretty fu.king good.
Don't muck around with old brakes as one day they will let you down in a big way as it did with me without warning and lucky mine let me down in a slow speed accident, I don't even want to think about it if it was a high speed accident.
As for rear brakes I am still running my original brake shoes but the drum/sprocket has been replaced, I can still lock up the rear brake if I want to but with effort, the rear brake is just to slow the back wheel down with the front and to keep the bike stable, if you rely on the back brakes for stopping then you are doing things wrong, front braking does all the work and so very important to have a good working set up and close to 50 year old brakes is not a good thing even if you think they are good enough for your riding style as one day they will let you down.
There are a lot of good upgrade brake systems on the market these days for our old Norton's it depends on how much money you are willing to spend, I went with the full Grimica system as it was the right price for me (front 12" disc, racing caliper, SS line and the right size MC) and now my old Norton stops as good as my modern Triumph Thruxtons, but the Norton is so much lighter.
I no longer get brake fade, but I never did over work my brakes even with the stock set up and even to this day I can slow down without over working my brakes system, in fact I hardly use my brakes at all up in the twisties only if I see a speed camera
As I say my life is so more important than keeping my crappy old brake system that struggles and one day they will let you down without warning, but then I don't pussy my Norton as I don't with all my bikes, ride them hard, ride them fast and live for another day to enjoy our bikes and our life style.

Ashley

worntorn said:

Soft brake wasn't the problem that day.
The problem was overheated brakes. The lever came up hard but the bike kept rolling, virtually no braking at all.
My stock MK3 relied on a grand total of 9.46 sq inches of friction material contact area, front +rear.
The Vincent has 120 sq. inches front + rear.
Disc brakes cool better than drum, just not 12 times better!

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Yes, understood...I was responding the the OP's comment that his lever is soft after his rebuild.

Tornado said:

To be clear, this is eroding the pads, not the drum surface, correct?

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Yes, making the shoes fit as close as possible to shape of the the drum . Also known as arcing. You can have a brake shop do this for you, but it's easier and faster to do it on your own. You don't take off much material, but it can make a big difference.

Tornado said:

Yes, understood...I was responding the the OP's comment that his lever is soft after his rebuild.

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Sorry!

Brithit said:

Yes, making the shoes fit as close as possible to shape of the the drum . Also known as arcing. You can have a brake shop do this for you, but it's easier and faster to do it on your own. You don't take off much material, but it can make a big difference.

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You can put the adhesive on other way round and turn the drum round first. It takes awhile but the end result is worth it.
Glen

worntorn said:

You can put the adhesive on other way round and turn the drum round first. It takes awhile but the end result is worth it.
Glen

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I think I need this as my rear drum brake has always felt vague and has a tight spot, giving a pulsation. Starting to feel that effect on front a bit now. Hoping its just the pistons sticking a bit or pad wear.

Tornado said:

To be clear, this is eroding the pads, not the drum surface, correct?

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Yes.

Tornado said:

I think I need this as my rear drum brake has always felt vague and has a tight spot, giving a pulsation. Starting to feel that effect on front a bit now. Hoping its just the pistons sticking a bit or pad wear.

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Not sure i would use 80 grit.

The RGM gold soft shoes will get their material removed post-haste is you use new 80 grit paper glued to the drum. Real fast. So don't over do it. I found those shoes to be better than stock but that is a pretty low bar.
Jim Comstock, who rides in the Rockies, said the stock front , even with a 13mm master, will over heat and you will find yourself sans brakes. He also said if you ride in the flatlands you will likely not have an issue. I have to agree with him as I moved to a hilly area and found the disc and caliper hotter than ever experienced after
a fast ride. Enough warning for me, I ordered a Madass front brake.

Onder said:

The RGM gold soft shoes will get their material removed post-haste is you use new 80 grit paper glued to the drum. Real fast. So don't over do it. I found those shoes to be better than stock but that is a pretty low bar.
Jim Comstock, who rides in the Rockies, said the stock front , even with a 13mm master, will over heat and you will find yourself sans brakes. He also said if you ride in the flatlands you will likely not have an issue. I have to agree with him as I moved to a hilly area and found the disc and caliper hotter than ever experienced after
a fast ride. Enough warning for me, I ordered a Madass front brake.

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Was looking at the Madass kit for single floating disc. Very nice. But at $750 USD, that'll be North of $1k CAD once DHL takes their pound of flesh. Have to start a swear jar or somethin'

Tornado said:

Was looking at the Madass kit for single floating disc. Very nice. But at $750 USD, that'll be North of $1k CAD once DHL takes their pound of flesh. Have to start a swear jar or somethin'

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You can build a version, from inexpensive Honda parts.

concours said:

You need a strong rear brake, in case you need to "lay 'er down"
...and never touch that front, "it'll throw you over the handlebars!"

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Having a strong rear brake helps lighten the burden on the front brake when repeated use is necessary such as long down hill grades.

worntorn said:

Two switchbacks after this is where my Norton disc brake gave up the ghost and I nearly went over an 800' high cliff.
Strangely, a 47 Vincent just ahead that was setting the very fast pace had no problem.
I've done the ride since with the Madass brake fitted. Two finger braking and no fade, what an improvement!

Glen

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See my post above

Having a strong front brake is even better.

worntorn said:

Having a strong front brake is even better.

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My point is, having both a strong front and strong rear brake is important. Using engine braking and the rear brake on a long descent will hopefully leave some reserve on the front brake when it may be needed.

The original MK3 had the same discs and calipers front and rear. In my experience, the back brake on the MK3 is plenty strong for the job, the front just isn't for my application.
With the Madass brake fitted the braking is balanced more like a modern bike with much greater brake strength at the front. It's obviously not as powerful as a big twin rotor brake, however those are designed to haul a Sportbike down from 170 mph or more.
The Madass brake is more than enough for Commando road speeds.

Even the standard brake is fine if you take it easy.

Glen

worntorn said:

The original MK3 had the same discs and calipers front and rear. In my experience, the back brake on the MK3 is plenty strong for the job, the front just isn't for my application.
With the Madass brake fitted the braking is balanced more like a modern bike with much greater brake strength at the front. It's obviously not as powerful as a big twin rotor brake, however those are designed to haul a Sportbike down from 170 mph or more.
The Madass brake is more than enough for Commando road speeds.

Even the standard brake is fine if you take it easy.

Glen

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Any chance you might elaborate on your comment " plenty strong for the job " . I have good braking with the original front system . The front will slow you down quite quickly without locking up the front wheel .. As for the rear .... it has always been poor . I just rebuilt both brakes this year and have made the rear much better but when you get over 30 mph and apply a hard rear brake it slows the bike down but without any real positive action .. The pedal is solid ... No air in the system . It will definitely not lock the wheel at speed . At a very low speed ( 10 mph) it will lock up tight . Just wondering how this compares with yours.

Thanks in advance