Matchless G-15CS...Get it Running!

That's not right.

the clutch back plate (1), race plate(4) and body, or hub(7) are bolted together by the clutch spring studs and nuts (5&6)




the bonded friction surface of the back plate mates against the back the the clutch basket (13).

Basically, numbers 1 through 12 are assembled, fitted through the back of 13, then the clutch plates fitted and the whole assembly held together by the clutch spring assemblies and pressure plate (14 through 22)

Image is too big, go here:
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-cha ... 959-on-bmp
to see it properly

Hi Bill, sorry if I wasn't clear. We're just trying to articulate the initial assembly of the studs/nuts 5/6 to the backplate 1, race plate 4, and clutch center 7.

The basket, pressure plate, plain steel plates, friction plates, and spring cups/springs/nuts aren't part of the confusion.

Do you think we're describing that initial assembly correctly? Where does the shoulder of the stud come to rest?

AgentX said:

Hi Bill, sorry if I wasn't clear. We're just trying to articulate the initial assembly of the studs/nuts 5/6 to the backplate 1, race plate 4, and clutch center 7.

The basket, pressure plate, plain steel plates, friction plates, and spring cups/springs/nuts aren't part of the confusion.

Do you think we're describing that initial assembly correctly? Where does the shoulder of the stud come to rest?

Click to expand...

It's been over a year since I had one of mine apart, but as I remember, the shoulder of the studs should rest on the clutch center, binding parts 7, 4 and 1 together as a unit. The one picture you posted shows only the race and backing plate assembled, which is why I think your studs stick out so far. I went on to state clutch in terms of the inner and outer assemblies, because another of your pictures seemed to have the backing plate inside the clutch basket instead of behind it.

I've got a pretty good blow-apart diagram of a Dominator clutch from my P11 owner's manual, but the one I linked from the NOC website is the best one I could find to post. The problem with the NOC diagram is it does not really show how all those parts go together in the proper order, necessitating my further explanation for clarity.

It should all be clear as mud, now!

Right, that pic was just to show why didn't think the studs should be staked straight to the back plate. I think we are all on the same boat for reassembly...I neglected to get the clutch center in the proper place when I first threw it together, and the stud shoulders were not in the correct place.

Can't wait to get back to the bike and sort it out, with an attempt at starting to follow.

AgentX said:

I’m told this is a home-made Zener diode…bike also has no battery, just an electrolytic capacitor. Used one on the Enfield for a while and it worked OK, but I preferred the cap as the backup for a proper battery. We’ll see what happens with that.


I checked and replaced all fluids and tried to fire it up, but I had no spark. So off came the rather obstinate timing cover, and I got the magneto detached and sent for service plus an EasyCap installation. Realized the petcocks were gummed up, so I figured the carbs might need a look too. Found them clean as a whistle, but the slide/barrel fit was terrible, so I sent them for re-sleeving and got new gaskets and needles/jets, since the needle jet orifices looked a little out of shape too.

Went to put the mag back on, so I had to get the primary cover off in preparation to time it. (Fun time with the left footrest…ugh…)

Click to expand...

To get this bike running first you need to check out that the magneto works and the timing is set right and the carburetors are clean and all fuel lines and tank are clean the timing is set by the drive side or left-hand cylinder at 32 degrees before top dead center and the spark plug lead for the left-hand cylinder is the one nearest to the battery box the one nearest to the cylinder is the right side one do not get these mixed up you need 15 thou on the points they should be looking upward and the heel of the cam should on the bottom you need to then get the point just opening at 32 degrees BTDC and you be better of with a ATC sprocket a Automatic timing control sprocket and the timing cover you have on this bike is from a early 650 of 1961 vintage now do have fun

So...good news!

Last week I properly assembled the clutch basket. One of the reasons the proper order had not been obvious to me was the fact that the studs were a very hard fit by hand through the race plate. I was being a little too ginger on that...once they seated properly everything lined up and it went back together no problem. Once again, thanks for the assistance.


That said--question before I put this back together. Regarding the clutch pushrod: when I removed it, I did not retreive a ball bearing (040031, I believe, Plate D #87 in my book). In the parts book diagram, this ball seems to be captive within the assembled gearbox. Am I correct, or does the ball just reside in the pushrod tunnel and roll free? (My Enfield is that way...) Want to make sure I am not missing something which may have gotten away from me on disassembly. If I do need one, is an ordinary 1/4" steel ball OK or is it a special part?

In more good news, I was able to transport the bike with me in the U-Haul to my new home for the next three years. It is residing happily in a friend's garage which is set up to work on bikes.

Might get some work on it done tomorrow, even, if the pushrod bearing situation isn't an obstacle. If things go well we could even have an attempt to fire it up.

annajeannette said:

To get this bike running first you need to check out that the magneto works and the timing is set right and the carburetors are clean and all fuel lines and tank are clean the timing is set by the drive side or left-hand cylinder at 32 degrees before top dead center and the spark plug lead for the left-hand cylinder is the one nearest to the battery box the one nearest to the cylinder is the right side one do not get these mixed up you need 15 thou on the points they should be looking upward and the heel of the cam should on the bottom you need to then get the point just opening at 32 degrees BTDC and you be better of with a ATC sprocket a Automatic timing control sprocket and the timing cover you have on this bike is from a early 650 of 1961 vintage now do have fun

Click to expand...

Thanks! At this point, the mag sparks, I have timed it best I can to my meager ability, carbs are spotless with fresh gaskets, needles, and jets, tank's had some inner surface rust knocked off with CLR and a few loose nuts, fuel taps have been cleaned, and the lines are clear.

Much appreciate the info on the mag's HT lead orientation...I was unable to find a reference for that.

Regarding the timing cover, the original owner did say it had been replaced and he wasn't sure if the tach drive cable was correctly oriented with this one, as it runs hard against the exhaust pipe. Anything else I should be aware of re: this older timing cover?

12 thou is correct magneto points gap.

Triton Thrasher said:

12 thou is correct magneto points gap.

Click to expand...

That's what I'd used based on my manual.

With a mag, can you alter timing slightly by changing the gap, as you can with a coil and points setup? I haven't seen any reference saying you can...would be nice to be able to make a timing adjustment without having to take off both the timing and primary covers, though!

AgentX said:

Triton Thrasher said:

12 thou is correct magneto points gap.

Click to expand...

That's what I'd used based on my manual.

With a mag, can you alter timing slightly by changing the gap, as you can with a coil and points setup? I haven't seen any reference saying you can...would be nice to be able to make a timing adjustment without having to take off both the timing and primary covers, though!

Click to expand...

Yes, but it can weaken the spark. People do it experimentally.

Thanks--hopefully I won't need to, but it's nice to know it's attemptable if necessary.

Do you also happen to know anything about the clutch pushrod ball bearing I mentioned in the post above? Appreciate your expertise.

AgentX said:

Thanks--hopefully I won't need to, but it's nice to know it's attemptable if necessary.

Do you also happen to know anything about the clutch pushrod ball bearing I mentioned in the post above? Appreciate your expertise.

Click to expand...

It is captive in the gearbox clutch operating assembly.

Slick

AgentX said:

Triton Thrasher said:

12 thou is correct magneto points gap.

Click to expand...

That's what I'd used based on my manual.

With a mag, can you alter timing slightly by changing the gap, as you can with a coil and points setup? I haven't seen any reference saying you can...would be nice to be able to make a timing adjustment without having to take off both the timing and primary covers, though!

Click to expand...

Some mags had a cam ring housing that had an eccentric screw which could be turned to advance or retard the cam ring by 4-5 degrees each way. This screw, if you have it, will be located at the 6 o'clock position on the cam ring housing ... not an easy place to get to it.

It is FAR more important the point gap be the same on both ramps, than spot on 12 thou, but up to 15 thou is considered within spec.

The timing will advance 2 degrees for each 0.001 increase in point gap, and vice versa. Likewise, the cylinders will fire 2 degrees differently for each 0.001 difference in point gap on the ramps.
Slick

I don't have a Norton/AMC clutch, but if the adjuster in the centre of the pressure plate has a blind hole facing the pushrod, it is normal for there to be a ball in the hole, for the end of the pushrod to bear against. Most Brit clutches have something like that.

Many owners have sawn the pushrod in half and put a ball between the two halves, within the mainshaft. I haven't heard of a factory doing that.

Other than that little lot, I don't know!

Triton Thrasher said:

I don't have a Norton/AMC clutch, but if the adjuster in the centre of the pressure plate has a blind hole facing the pushrod, it is normal for there to be a ball in the hole, for the end of the pushrod to bear against. Most Brit clutches have something like that.

Many owners have sawn the pushrod in half and put a ball between the two halves, within the mainshaft. I haven't heard of a factory doing that.

Other than that little lot, I don't know!

Click to expand...

The adjuster in the center of the pressure plate on my Atlas (same as G15 I believe, but perhaps there are differences) has a plain flat hardened surface.

Only ball is on the other end, and is part of the cam operator.

Slick

texasSlick said:

Triton Thrasher said:

I don't have a Norton/AMC clutch, but if the adjuster in the centre of the pressure plate has a blind hole facing the pushrod, it is normal for there to be a ball in the hole, for the end of the pushrod to bear against. Most Brit clutches have something like that.

Many owners have sawn the pushrod in half and put a ball between the two halves, within the mainshaft. I haven't heard of a factory doing that.

Other than that little lot, I don't know!

Click to expand...

The adjuster in the center of the pressure plate on my Atlas (same as G15 I believe, but perhaps there are differences) has a plain flat hardened surface.

Only ball is on the other end, and is part of the cam operator.

Slick

Click to expand...

Makes sense. If there's no hole, there'll be no ball.

Thanks, Slick! Glad I didn't lose the ball, and I will ensure the points gaps are equal prior to going further.

(The Enfield has a loose ball in there as I mentioned, and the later 5-speed transmission is in fact two rods with a ball between as triton thrasher describes, but from the factory.)

Update!

So back in mid-July, I managed to get the bike crammed into my uHaul and brought it down with me to the new digs. Dropped it with a friend who has a motorcycle-maintenance-specific garage on his house expecting to get it running quickly.

Unfortunately, things took a turn for the worse when he sustained a serious, probably life-altering head injury during a track day. Been tending to him and his family and trying to get my own properly moved in, leaving no time for wrenching, plus I felt awkward doing it at his place.

But he's doing well after some surgery, and I managed to get my motorcycle license squared away in the meantime;never had one in the US so I had to (re)take the MSF basic as the most expedient method to fully license in a minimal amount of time.

Leading me to today...got some time with the bike, and now have an installed and seemingly functional clutch. Oddly, my new clutch rod was too short and now the old one fits splendidly, so obviously there was a bug in there somewhere that's been ironed out through reassembly.

I was careful tightening the nuts and it doesn't seem that I need any truing on the basket.

New Venhill cable went on (well-oiled), and now the clutch pull is within the realm of human performance to operate, which is nice.

Looks like all that remains is to refit the fuel lines and put the pipes back on temporarily for a test start! If I can get it to fire, I will get the footrests and primary cover back on afterwards. Figure the primary chain will last twenty seconds at idle without its oil bath.

(Pics to follow when I can get home to the laptop.)

Hoping my buddy is well enough to be home and in the garage soon...he is actually asking to do mechanical work. I think his brain needs the stimulation and he definitely needs the motor skills therapy.

Tried to fire it up last week. Initially, when I put gas in, I had some fuel bubbling slowly out of the intake ports below the venturi on the carbs. (Have been unable to determine which port serves which function with the carbs mounted; I'm not familiar with Amals beyond my recent rebuild. I tapped the float bowl on the master carb and tightened the jet blocks down a tad, as I'd been pretty ginger about torquing anything down too hard on re-assembly. Seemed to stop the bubbling. However, when I tried to kick the bike over, fuel squirted alternately out the ports on either carb; easily visible as I didn't have the air filter on. (I felt like a mechanical genius at this point...)

I re-set the valve lash, as I figured there was no option except air reverting through the intake valves under compression. Seemed to fix the fuel squirting back, but it still doesn't want to fire. I tried rolling down the steep driveway for a bump start, and it gave some hollow "thuds" but wasn't even close to catching.

Today I'll try a compression test and see what I get. The kickstarter doesn't seem particularly firm to me, but I have little experience to judge.

Guessing maybe a valve job is in order...? We'll see in a few hours. I will try it dry and then with some oil on the rings. If the compression is low and the oil on the rings changes nothing, we're looking at a valve sealing issue, right?

Edit: 175 psi right side 100 left. Takes quite a few kicks to get the max reading either side. Conducting test with both plugs out and WOT.


And after dripping oil onto the piston, 150 psi left side. Sigh. Rings, yeah?

Or...I just might (ie, definitely) have timed it so the leads were 180 out of phase...it just fired and ran!!!

Woohoo!


I would like to ensure the ignition is timed well before buttoning up the primary side, putting footrests back on, etc. I will post a video shortly and hope you guys can provide some feedback.