Kickstarting a commando

Well, I'm not saying I can't start it, but I doubt any of my friends could. But they also don't have a Norton. I did say I'm 71 so that's not too bad at this point. I may have to try some new methods or better yet, get more practice.

The kicker is a Mk 111 item. I was wearing the wrong footwear on a wet cold morning and I slipped off to kick the pavement instead. Rubber was good. Heard the tibia crack and the foot wobbled a lot. Moral of story is get really good boots with ankle support. Don't slip with all your weight. I weigh 145 to 160 lbs. Reverse kicking with left side is my new strategy. :idea:

needing said:

Hi Ashley.
Off topic - oops.
Try a peice of plasterer's sanding mesh wrapped almost around the plastic throttle tube then push the grip on. They never slip again.
Ta.

Click to expand...

I use tie wire on my dirt bike and the Norton has a zip tie for now and is all good and the plaster's sanding mesh sounds like a good idea.

Ashley

Do not kid anyone the Norton kicker leverage ratio is likely the worse of the era so actaully harder to kick off than a Harley as I and many others over decades have shocked them by letting them try to start by foot. Its a real mans cycle to just swing a leg over step down and go but I have been injured a number of extended periods -it was impossible or easy injurious to kick and have anything go wrong. Along with the belt primary ratio next Peel has custom extra low granny 1st from TTI so should be able to kick her 10.5 CR 920 ness over I hope.


Btw one my favorite things to do in front of all eyes watching is simply step down w/o any throttle so instant soft idle sounds that strain ears to enjoy as opposed to the obnoxious HDs with a little off ilde rpm so carbs can take a throttle snap blip that revs so sharply smartly its a bit startling. My 2 Combats generally tuned to require a light tickle just enough to fill starting/mix chamber then no throttle 1 step start when cold but after that if not full cool, no throttle step down does it, if not one more with throttle cracked, if not i check what I left off or disconnected or out of gas or carb bolt missing etc before wasting effort on a 3rd attempt.

Oh yeah another favorite thing I do before starting with a crowd of cyclers watching, I yell out
Hey Ya all Know What A Thumb Commensor is Known For! all eye going huh???
then I step start and give a nice little tasty blip ...
LOWING ONES IQ to see the heads jerk a bit...
then roar off leaving SNotron puff balls behind...

Another thing I do leaving cycle clusters in my village square is softly putter once around the square then softly out of square short shifting like lazy harley till 30 ish/2200 in 4th and out of sight 100 yrd > I snick to 2nd and come back on WOT a few 1000 rpm higher fast rising roar out of there to impress another level of Commando pleasure.

The two prototypes didn't have stands, either center or kick, so we had to start them from astride. It was fairly easy for me at 5"10 and fairly long in the leg. It was only after the Commando went into production at the Plumstead works that a center stand was added. IIRC, they used the Atlas unit to begin with but had a lot of grounding problems.

Dog , you made me laugh. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. You and the rest of us, just keep doing what works for you. The main thing is that you can get her lit off and roar off to obtain that big wide grin and terrorize the neighborhood. My first bike was a 1970 Commando purchased new in North Finchley, London. Had ridden a Triumph once and that was the extent of my motorcycle experience. Well, I can tell you that to mount up on that beautiful blue flake commando was quite a thrill. Commando's were faster than the muscle cars of the 60's era. We asked the long haired fellow that was getting the bikes ready if he would mind going to fuel them up for us because we were neophytes. He looked at us as if we were crazy. Well, he gassed the bikes for us and we exited for the M1 I believe. We went through a pretty fast learning curve on all aspects of riding and starting a Commando. Love that driving on the wrong side of the road. On the return we drove from New York to Houston to LA. That was the beginning of a life long love affair with Commando's.

Yeah, at least I can light it up. And it does take 20-30 years off my mindset when I feel those pistons taking charge.

When your bike can sit for 2 ,4 , even 6 months and you can light her off on the first kick, then you can consider yourself a Nortoneer First Class. I never check mine for wet sumping, although I recently added a manual oil cut off ball valve. I added the valve because I had noticed on numerous occasions, the sump had to be full. No worries when I was less feeble than I am now. Kicked that baby to Kalamazoo. But we are not getting any younger and as Mr Croche said, "But now I am a wiser man".

Last few days (we have the hottest temperatures in 100 years for this time of the year) i did some kickstarting off the stand. It is not harder then on the stand, but different. I notice it needs a little more force to get to 'first kick start speed'. Half of the times i need a second kick when starting on the wheels. Not a problem and might just be getting used to. But it definitely is not starting first kick by gravity only. On top of my weight, it needs a little (really only a little) 'stretch - bend - push' action of the leg.

Does anyone know what the gear ratio for the kickstart shaft vs. Crankshaft is? Or... does it ignite only once on a (let's say) attempt of 120-130°? The total degrees of leverage seems to be a little more on the stand.

My original question (and the reason for asking) is answered. A commando does not 'need' a center stand. So on my next bike i will not add one.

Can not tell ya the level ratio to turn crank but its rather poor compared to others expect maybe the big 500 singles. My P!! had no stands and Peel lost hers before she earned a name. The centerstand + spring wiegh about 8 lb and its boot peg fouls on LH leans to grind off so its just noticable to feel its loss and not missed unless a flat away from home. After a time the side stand pivot gets loose so side stand tends to flop and let bike lean further than desired but beats looking for tree or post or walls to stop against like the P!!.

My favorite 1st kick start memory was the P!! set up storeage in mc shop for 9 mo with my out of state so on return it was parked with a clean white HD police cycle saddle bags directily behind open header, so gave a tickle and jump up to come down like normal karate kick it needed and Bang big ole dnner plate size soot stain on the police bike, which made me grin and give is some real exhaust clean out on the police bike then idled off and lit her up leaving before I got caught. The P!! had a higth 1st gear for real commitment taking off and terrible leavage on HI compression and almost always hurt to kikck over and if backfired broke foot as tossed me off to side and it fell over w/o stands. I could not hardly affford food back then so did not own boots.

Small correction:

The first gear ratio is 2,56 to 1 but that is because the mainshaft 1st gear (14 T) drives the layshaft 1st gear (28 T) which in turn drives the mainshaft 4th (23 T) gear via the layshaft 4th gear (18 T). 23/19 * 28/14 = 2,56.

When kick starting the bike there will be 2,19 * 28/14 = 4,42 crankshaft revolutions for every kickstart shaft revolution because you are driving the mainshaft 1st gear (14 T) via the layshaft 1st gear (28 T).

So, with the RGM standard belt drive at 1:1.96ish, my crank will turn 3.92 revs per kickstart shaft rev.
Is this correct?

How much longer can the kick start be,without causing a problem?

As for that spinning/slipping kickstart rubber - Gorilla Glue, follow instructions and wet the two parts first. Stuff is great. I use it on the shifter rubber too.

Another trick, which I was taught by Frank Forster, friction tape and gas. Works perfectly on the foot peg rubbers.

xbacksideslider said:

As for that spinning/slipping kickstart rubber - Gorilla Glue, follow instructions and wet the two parts first. Stuff is great. I use it on the shifter rubber too.

Another trick, which I was taught by Frank Forster, friction tape and gas. Works perfectly on the foot peg rubbers.

Click to expand...

I demur.
Kickstart rubbers should roll around the shaft but not slide off the end: a suitable circlip is one method of ensuring this.
Shifter rubbers can be glued on no problem.
Footpeg rubbers should not slide off or rotate freely or you lose control of your bike at the worst possible moment when they do i.e. in a crisis situation. A solution: I have tapped the shaft and fitted endcaps that can be manually rotated. The shaft and rubbers are shortened to half-length to provide ground clearance (and the rubbers last twice as long).
Ta.

I will try the gorilla snot and maybe wire wrap back up as sounds simpler than Franks pre gorilla glue solution. Frannkie mentored me since 1999. Last time the ks cushion slipped off for some damage was leaving a power wash when my normal slowish step down Combat start half fired from water under plug boots so lever out accelerated foot which slipped cushion off w/o noticing it had also snatched my boot heel right off, only sensing something move at edge of rear vision then strange sensation planting heel next instant lower than expected. It was so smooth easy slow action by toe of boot it did not slip off wet peg so just felt like ks came to easy stop. So a fully fettered Commando should not be too hard to start nor too easy.

Even if cushion is attached well a wet/muddy boot can still slip off over the peg nob to bruise though boot sole so I do not think I will try an end cap solution that sticks out any beyond the factory peg nub.

More than once have been in alligator like rocks so ks hit top of rock before firing so had to dig out some for swing through room. Ozone Ozarks Hi Lands has its oddities.

Along with the belt primary ratio next Peel has custom extra low granny 1st from TTI so should be able to kick her 10.5 CR 920 ness over I hope.


Hi Steve. Greetings from Wellington.

By my calculations, a lower first gear would make the starter even higher geared and harder to kick over. [ Is that what you really meant ]
Dereck

ps, the big first gear turns the small main shaft gear directly. so approx. 4;1 ratio is correct.

wiring my kick start rubber allows ther rubber to spin on the shaft without coming off. It does wear the hole on the rubber but lasts a long time even then.

ugh Dereck I am confused on how I understand kick ratio then, ugh, did not want to make compression releases or carry a cordless tool to spin crank directly like Kelly George does his flat tracker. If 1st too small in dia then no room for racket. I am getting a tool for wire hose clamps so will wire peg rubber on and see if the spine helps or hurts. I have saved a couple-3 kick levers to weld up just in case on Peel. Hope the Norris D cam bleeds pressure before my bone marrow does.

Wire Tie Tool I am just starting to shop for...


http://www.survival-gear-guide.com/clam ... -wire.html


http://www.tool-rank.com/tool-blog/cool ... 110706988/

Aaaah. You don't need a bloody tool Steve. A pair of plier, a length of 1/16 " welding wire, and some commons sense is all you need.
Dereck