Kickstart RPM

To get back on subject, I could get good sparks from a pazon on kick-start with plugs out. Couldn't start it with plugs in. Due to my faith being dubious about the electric start I've just fitted a Trispark unit and this old partial cripple managed to kick start bike for the first time in 8 years or so ! I've read many bad reports on here about it but definitely sparks at lower revs. Roy. I assume then , over 150 with plugs in ?

The yaki said:

I used to have a sunbeam rapier (H120) with twin 40's high comp and all other updates. The standard distributor for it had weights instead of the standard vacuum advance to the family saloon. Weak springs took it to fully advanced around 750 rpm ! Always wondered why ? Rapid engine foor it's day !

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I used to have a Hunter GLS. Same lump, Holbay tuned, with twin 40’s, a real Q-ship as many an Escort or 1600E Cortina drivers found out. It was designed to run on 5 star, but was already unavailable. When properly timed it went like stink, but pinked terribly, so the ignition had to be backed off. ( still quick then though).

Some time when I bring the pistons up to top with the kicker my Norton fires up without any throttle with no retard, these Joe Hunts work so well and most of the time I am not even putting any effort into the kick it fires up and I don't seem to have any problem kicking it to life no matter where the pistons are in the cylinders, but my mates seem to have troubles kicking my bike to life.

ashman said:

Some time when I bring the pistons up to top with the kicker my Norton fires up without any throttle with no retard, these Joe Hunts work so well and most of the time I am not even putting any effort into the kick it fires up and I don't seem to have any problem kicking it to life no matter where the pistons are in the cylinders, but my mates seem to have troubles kicking my bike to life.

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You know just what she likes Ash.

Saber said:

You know just what she likes Ash.

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Must like the oil I put into the bike, it has no name or whether male or female it's just bike and a good pat on the tank to thank it for a great day out, after 48+ years of riding the Norton, it must be happy lol.

jseng1 said:

For creating a new magneto style ignition with an internal switch that goes to full advance just above kick start speed to avoid kickback.

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Jim, Where is it going to be mounted??

CanukNortonNut said:

Jim, Where is it going to be mounted??

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I don't really want to talk about it much because its a long ways off but we are planning on mounting to the stator & rotor. Should work with or without battery and want to get to full advance by 2000RPM. Only in the planing design stage so far.

jseng1 said:

For creating a new magneto style ignition with an internal switch that goes to full advance just above kick start speed to avoid kickback.

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Jim maybe if you run a JH off the side of your motor as I have said many times over and with two bikes I ran Joe Hunt magnetos off the side directly off the cam I have never suffered kickback from starting at full advance, maybe running that extra chain to run the magneto behind the cylinder might be a problem with kickback, who knows as I don't have a problem at all and always one kick to start.
I have never had a JH run behind the cylinders myself a few other mates who have ran the JHs off the side have never had kickback problems at all as well, if they been set up right and tuned right they don't kick back at full advance while kicking them to life, as I have also said I been running Joe Hunt magnetos on 2 British bikes off the side for over 25 years now, but everyone seem to have kickback problems in their heads, but I have never had in all that time, has anyone else who has ran a JH off the side had any problem with kickback and I still have mates that run with JH magnetos on their older Triumphs without any problems.
I am not trying to be smart about it but seem funny myself and other mates don't have a problem with kickback with running them off the side, maybe having that second chain to run the JH has something to do with it, be nice to know if anyone else who had run a JH off the side had any problems as I know none of my mates have had no problems.
But with my 1960 Manxman project bike I be interested to know as the Lucas competition magneto sits behind the cylinders and if I need to replace it, it will be replaced with a new Joe Hunt magneto behind the cylinders.

Ashley

ashman said:

I have never suffered kickback from starting at full advance, maybe running that extra chain to run the magneto behind the cylinder might be a problem with kickback, who knows as I don't have a problem at all and always one kick to start.
I have never had a JH run behind the cylinders myself a few other mates who have ran the JHs off the side have never had kickback problems at all as well, if they been set up right and tuned right they don't kick back at full advance while kicking them to life, as I have also said I been running Joe Hunt magnetos on 2 British bikes off the side for over 25 years now, but everyone seem to have kickback problems in their heads, but I have never had in all that time, has anyone else who has ran a JH off the side had any problem with kickback and I still have mates that run with JH magnetos on their older Triumphs without any problems.

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ARD Mag, 11.5:1 compression, a healthy amount of cam overlap, and 39 degrees of advance on a big bore Triumph can make a big kickback. I had a start attempt that had me lying on the ground questioning the days choices. The solution that has so far prevented this is compression releases, homemade manual advance lever on the magneto, and deep dive carb tuning.

A small amount of advance control for starting will help someone's leg one day, then again the Norton's 11 degrees of timing less than the Triumph might be enough to skate on by.

What RPM does the electric start spin the Norton before it starts?

If the stator and rotor are at the alternator side(?), where are the spark plug wires routed from?

Wireless spark plugs....

Schwany said:

If the stator and rotor are at the alternator side(?), where are the spark plug wires routed from?

Wireless spark plugs....

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Probably wired to an external coil, like most dirt bikes, CDI, and more modern style mags. Though Tesla coils would be a sight to see going down the road.

Regardless of what the bike is or what type of ignition system, if you bounce a piston backwards off compression, you are likely to get bitten. When you stand there kicking like crazy, you usually do not have much control. When I kick-start a bike, I make sure I have electrics and fuel, then push down on the lever until I feel compression, then just give a strong shove to make sure the piston goes past compression. Most motors will fire-up immediately. If they don't, you usually have something which is set up wrong. Or you have dud plugs.
Who is in control - you or the bike ?

The first time a new motor is started is the most difficult. Usually the idle part of it's carburation has not been set up. Once you have had it running and adjusted it - should be much easier. It usually does not matter how much ignition advance you have. When you kick it over, always keep pressure on the lever. If it kicks back, you just hold it. But if your foot is not always firmly on the lever, you can get hurt. When you kick it once, then go to kick it the next time, sometimes your foot leaves the lever between kicks - that is dangerous. Always keep pressure on the lever. Kicking it quickly to raise the RPM is futile - all ignition systems should fire at one RPM.

maaseyracer said:

Probably wired to an external coil, like most dirt bikes, CDI, and more modern style mags. Though Tesla coils would be a sight to see going down the road.

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Might as well use TriSpark with a 3 ohm 45KV Harley coil and find a way to keep the TriSpark stator/control board cool, which is not so simple

How about somebody hit the starter button and tell us how many RPMs you see before it starts.

jseng1 said:

How about somebody hit the starter button and tell us how many RPMs you see before it starts.

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On cNw, it's max 2. I have no idea of the rotational speed in RPMs but I call them an instant on, not an e-start.

2 might be how many rotations occur before it starts,.... but that's not RPM's (rotations per minute) unless it takes 2 minutes for the bike to start on it's second rotation....

If it starts after 2 rotations when the starter is spinning the crank at 2000 rpms then the answer is 2000, not 2

I should be easy to disconnect the spark plug leads, hit the elect starter button and read the tac. Lets make it a contest - which elect starter turns the motor the fastest RPM?

The yaki said:

To get back on subject, I could get good sparks from a pazon on kick-start with plugs out. Couldn't start it with plugs in. Due to my faith being dubious about the electric start I've just fitted a Trispark unit and this old partial cripple managed to kick start bike for the first time in 8 years or so ! I've read many bad reports on here about it but definitely sparks at lower revs. Roy. I assume then , over 150 with plugs in ?

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Do not presume the plugs are OK. Try a set of new ones. Sometimes the carbon on the plugs might change and conduct electricity. It has only ever happened to me once. Usually the motor always starts at the first attempt, but one day at Winton I could not get a peep out of it. I replaced the plugs and it started straight away as soon as it was bumped. The only other time it has refused to start was a problem with the isolator switch.