Kegler clamps vs Mark 3 cotter pin conversion

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For installing Kegler Clamps on an early spindle that doesn't have the flats ground into it, what would be the angle between center of the top fixing bolt and the right angle of the flat? Looks like 120° Absent the flats, doesn't really matter but it would be nice get it correct.
 
Peavey Jeltz said:
For installing Kegler Clamps on an early spindle that doesn't have the flats ground into it, what would be the angle between center of the top fixing bolt and the right angle of the flat? Looks like 120° Absent the flats, doesn't really matter but it would be nice get it correct.
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You need to leave enough room to get at the bolts with the swingarm on. But ignore the part about drilling into the spindle - you can do that easily. Make sure to de-burr the interior of the cradle tube.

Kegler clamps vs Mark 3 cotter pin conversion


 
Peavey Jeltz said:
What I was looking for was cross section. Degree of rotation (90-120) between the top retaining bolt and the 17/16 holes. I'd like to hit my non existent flats at a right angle.
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Eyeball it. 7:30-8:00 gave proper clearance.
As long as your clamps are drilled square, the bolt will be at a right angle to the shaft.
 
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If I were going to use the kegler type clamps I would clamp them on the frame tube
Then without drilling any holes I would tighten the bolts until they indented the tube enough to hold the pivot pin rigid (if the pin has the MK3 slots I'd face the slots forwards)
If the bolts didn't tighten enough to clamp the pin I would grind the bolts to a blunt point to increase the clamping torque
If it still didn't clamp the pin I'd drill the holes to allow the bolts to clamp the pin tight
Obviously you now run the risk of some of the oil coming out
And the ingress of water/road dirt/salt getting in
 
I realize this method requires major disassembly but was the most simple and clean installation since I had it apart anyway .
Locate & drill cross tube and tap holes for threads . You will need to have spindle in hand to determine location of flats both radially and axially relative to lock bolt . Assemble nuts and cap screws onto cross tube finger tight . Tack nuts - remove screws then fully weld nuts . Chase threads all through and de burr inside of tube .
Done.
Kegler clamps vs Mark 3 cotter pin conversion
 
For this alloy cradle I came to the same conclusion as Stephen, the MK3 spindle fixing method is quite difficult to fabricate.
This one got built in Kegler Clamps.
MK3 spindle, frame and swing arm.

 
Thanks for all the responses. Took a look on AN and the photos there do suggest that the flats are 90° off the top fixing bolt.
Last time Jeltz did this was the welded nut and bolt method on a different Commando. Probably should just take it all apart at this point. Might as well get some of these and upgrade the swingarm.
Kegler clamps vs Mark 3 cotter pin conversion
 
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Richard Tool wrote: "I realize this method requires major disassembly but was the most simple and clean installation since I had it apart anyway .Locate & drill cross tube and tap holes for threads . You will need to have spindle in hand to determine location of flats both radially and axially relative to lock bolt . Assemble nuts and cap screws onto cross tube finger tight . Tack nuts - remove screws then fully weld nuts . Chase threads all through and de burr inside of tube .
Done."

Richard, if I understand your procedure, I am not sure this would be a recommended fix as it relies on the thin tubing to maintain the bolt pressure on the spindle. That is why the kegler clamp works so well: the load from the bolt in the clamp is transferred to the opposite side of the tube, effectively making the tubing 3/8" thick, or whatever depth of clamp is being used.
 
Richard Tool said:
I realize this method requires major disassembly but was the most simple and clean installation since I had it apart anyway .
Locate & drill cross tube and tap holes for threads . You will need to have spindle in hand to determine location of flats both radially and axially relative to lock bolt . Assemble nuts and cap screws onto cross tube finger tight . Tack nuts - remove screws then fully weld nuts . Chase threads all through and de burr inside of tube .
Done.
View attachment 82680
Click to expand...
You left out the part about replacing with stronger, thicker walled tubes.
 
concours said:
You left out the part about replacing with stronger, thicker walled tubes.
Click to expand...
There is no question that thicker wall tubing is stronger and hence the advantage of the clamp system beyond the easier installation but how strong does it need to be ? Seems to me that the action of the screw ( which only takes up slack ) places tensile loads on the tube which ultimately is wrapped around the spindle and it also seems to me that thicker walls are more advantageous in compressive situations. As an example consider a hose clamp - easily collapsed when squeezed together but more difficult to stretch.
Were it a racing effort it might warrant more extreme work .
I am certainly open to correction on my logic or lack there of .
 
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Richard Tool said:
There is no question that thicker wall tubing is stronger and hence the advantage of the clamp system beyond the easier installation but how strong does it need to be ? Seems to me that the action of the screw ( which only takes up slack ) places tensile loads on the tube which ultimately is wrapped around the spindle and it also seems to me that thicker walls are more advantageous in compressive situations.
Were it a racing effort it might warrant more extreme work .
I am certainly open to correction on my logic or lack there of .
Click to expand...
I just noticed the FRESH MIG welds.
Welding a nut on the original tube is not a good resolve (JMWO), and the Kegler shaft collar mod is a MARVEL of effective simplicity.
 
concours said:
I just noticed the FRESH MIG welds.
Welding a nut on the original tube is not a good resolve (JMWO), and the Kegler shaft collar mod is a MARVEL of effective simplicity.
Click to expand...
If you are referencing the photo I posted it was taken before any welding was done - any welds in photo are original.
 
Welding the nuts as above would cause some shrinkage and distortion ,it could even be enough to swrink the tube to fit the pin tightly without the bolts!!
 
Kegler clamps won over welding. Besides, it's still easy enough to redo with welded nuts. Not sure that's really an advantage though.
Dry fitted with spindle in place to make sure no burrs. Should probably clean the back side of the primary cover yeah?
Kegler clamps vs Mark 3 cotter pin conversion
 
Peavey Jeltz said:
Kegler clamps won over welding. Besides, it's still easy enough to redo with welded nuts. Not sure that's really an advantage though.
Dry fitted with spindle in place to make sure no burrs. Should probably clean the back side of the primary cover yeah?
Kegler clamps vs Mark 3 cotter pin conversion
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Can you get at the allen screws with the swingarm in place? You may want to switch to a hex bolt/set screw.
 
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