Just When I Thought I Was Done With Upgrade $$$

Anyone know where the assimilator is located on a MK II? I can't find the W/Br wire after it enters the main harness.

I want to use the W/Br wire as a ground for the Eclipse voltage level LED. That will give me a ready made switched harness to the headlight nacelle.

Dan1950 said:

Anyone know where the assimilator is located on a MK II? I can't find the W/Br wire after it enters the main harness.

I want to use the W/Br wire as a ground for the Eclipse voltage level LED. That will give me a ready made switched harness to the headlight nacelle.

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Near the PTO side exhaust rocker cover. Bigger than a 35mm film can, smaller than a coil, but bare aluminum, mounted in a spring.

concours said:

Near the PTO side exhaust rocker cover

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That is where the wire enters the main wiring harness.

I guess I could just ground the wire there.

concours said:

Near the PTO side exhaust rocker cover. Bigger than a 35mm film can, smaller than a coil, but bare aluminum, mounted in a spring.

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OK I found it. I thought it was a battery back up capacitor like I had on my '67 A65T. I don't think it was even hooked up to the stator. I connected the W/Br with the red wires and viola' I have a circuit for the voltage sensor Eclipse LED in my headlight bucket. A 5/16" hole will allow the 5mm LED to be located between the turn indicator warning light and headlight switch.

I can tap into the white hot lead in the bucket and run a ground wire to the oil pressure sender unit for an oil pressure warning light at the charge warning light location..

Dan1950 said:

OK I found it. I thought it was a battery back up capacitor like I had on my '67 A65T.

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That would be a blue can capacitor (2MC) with double brown/blue and a red in the battery compartment, if fitted.

Dan1950 said:

I don't think it was even hooked up to the stator. I connected the W/Br with the red wires and viola' I have a circuit for the voltage sensor Eclipse LED in my headlight bucket. A 5/16" hole will allow the 5mm LED to be located between the turn indicator warning light and headlight switch.

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All you needed to do is connect the Eclipse negative (black?) wire to harness white and positive to harness red inside the headlamp shell. There's no need to run wires out to the assimilator connections because white/brown (WN) comes from the headlamp shell and the Eclipse 'ground' can be any red.

L.A.B. said:

That would be a blue can capacitor (2MC) with double brown/blue and a red in the battery compartment, if fitted.





All you needed to do is connect the Eclipse negative (black?) wire to harness white and positive to harness red inside the headlamp shell. There's no need to run wires out to the assimilator connections because white/brown (WN) comes from the headlamp shell and the Eclipse 'ground' can be any red.

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But the circuit is already there, why not use it?

Dan1950 said:

But the circuit is already there, why not use it?

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Because it is basically running wires to the assimilator location when it isn't necessary in my opinion, as you could connect the wires inside the headlamp shell where the lamp is.

L.A.B. said:

Because it is basically running wires to the assimilator location when it isn't necessary in my opinion, as you could connect the wires inside the headlamp shell where the lamp is.

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The wires are already there, no "running wires" necessary. You are using the same circuit as the OEM warning light albeit with the assimilator removed. Nothing to connect except the wires at the assimilator. One connection, no added wires. Just hook the LED into the existing warning light circuit.

Dan1950 said:

The wires are already there, no "running wires" necessary. You are using the same circuit as the OEM warning light albeit with the assimilator removed.

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Yes, but you are connecting the Eclipse to the white/brown (-) wire that comes from the headlamp. My point is that length of headlamp-assimilator wire could be eliminated and the Eclipse 'ground' could simply be connected to harness red inside the headlamp.

Dan1950 said:

Nothing to connect except the wires at the assimilator. One connection, no added wires. Just hook the LED into the existing warning light circuit.

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Ok, fair enough. It was just a suggestion that in my opinion would simplify the wiring because it would all be contained within the headlamp shell.

You should also have found a green/yellow with a spade terminal at the assimilator location that should be insulated if you haven't already done so.

Dan1950 said:

The wires are already there, no "running wires" necessary. You are using the same circuit as the OEM warning light albeit with the assimilator removed. Nothing to connect except the wires at the assimilator. One connection, no added wires. Just hook the LED into the existing warning light circuit.

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The BSM works more like a volt meter than an idiot light - so monitors voltage and needs to be connected to a switched power source and earth.

L.A.B. said:

Yes, but you are connecting the Eclipse to the white/brown (-) wire that comes from the headlamp. My point is that length of headlamp-assimilator wire could be eliminated and the Eclipse 'ground' could simply be connected to harness red inside the headlamp.




Ok, fair enough. It was just a suggestion that in my opinion would simplify the wiring because it would all be contained within the headlamp shell.

You should also have found a green/yellow with a spade terminal at the assimilator location that should be insulated if you haven't already done so.

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Yes I found the wire but as far as I can tell, it wasn't connected when the Podtronics regulator was installed. The light was always on and that is why I thought it was an ignition on warning light. And yes, it is insulated.

Derek Wilson said:

The BSM works more like a volt meter than an idiot light - so monitors voltage and needs to be connected to a switched power source and earth.

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Yes, I am aware of that. Much like modern automobiles. That white wire in the circuit comes directly from the ignition switch and the W/Br assimilator wire is wired directly to ground.

Dan1950 said:

That white wire in the circuit comes directly from the ignition switch and the W/Br assimilator wire is wired directly to ground.

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So where exactly have you connected the Eclipse negative wire?

L.A.B. said:

So where exactly have you connected the Eclipse negative wire?

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The negative wire is connected to the existing white wire from the ignition switch. That is how the existing warning light is wired. W/Br is positive and goes directly to ground once the assimilator is taken out of the circuit.

L.A.B. said:

So where exactly have you connected the Eclipse negative wire?

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There are only a few ways to regulate voltage in a permanent magnet generator. One is the tried and true "take it to ground" method in which the generator is always putting out all it can either through the desired load (lights etc.) or wasted to ground. Either way, the generator can't tell the difference as it just makes everything it can with the magnets and windings available at the rpm the engine is turning.

Method two is to let the voltage "pile up" on the generator side of the regulator and only let the needed power come through as required by the load. In this method the energy that is not needed for the lights and ignition is actually never really produced so the crankshaft sees no load for the power you do not need. This would be the MOSFET type being talked about. They should run a lot cooler most of the time. There is no magic though. This method of regulation does not increase the maximum amount of power available.

In either case the measured voltage on the downstream side of the regulator should be what the regulator is set at. (13.8v or whatever.)

The third and fourth methods I know of are a lot more complicated. #3 would be to have counter windings in each of the field windings which would be energized with a "back current" by some sort of regulator that is looking for the desired voltage and applying the back current to the armature windings whenever the voltage went too high. This method would also leave the unused energy unproduced, I think, so there would be less load on the crankshaft. (Not quite sure about that one.)

And the fourth method I can think of would be the most impractical of all and that would be to move the rotating magnet out of line with the stator coils by sliding one or the other in or out. This method too would leave unused power unproduced while regulating voltage.

The only danger with method two using what is also called a "series" regulator is that voltage can be quite high on the alternator side. This could cause arcing if it is too high. (I have seen 160v AC on an unregulated Honda XL185 generator which did not seem to be a problem)

Fun stuff, Dan.

Dan1950 said:

The negative wire is connected to the existing white wire from the ignition switch. That is how the existing warning light is wired.

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Ok so the Eclipse negative is connected to white.

Dan1950 said:

That is how the existing warning light is wired. W/Br is positive and goes directly to ground once the assimilator is taken out of the circuit.

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Ok, so white/brown at the assimilator end is connected to 'ground' (to the red assimilator wire or elsewhere) just saying it's basically unnecessary as that section of white/brown could be eliminated.

Dan1950 said:

Bill's Norton Commando Mk II Full Color Electrical / Wiring Diagram

Bill's Norton Commando Mk II Full Color Electrical / Wiring Diagram

www.billturnbull.com

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Yes, I'm well acquainted with the wiring layout, however, there are some errors on that diagram.
"L.A.B from the Access Norton forum pointed out some inaccuracies of the factory diagram, so these have been changed:"

motorson said:

There are only a few ways to regulate voltage in a permanent magnet generator. One is the tried and true "take it to ground" method in which the generator is always putting out all it can either through the desired load (lights etc.) or wasted to ground. Either way, the generator can't tell the difference as it just makes everything it can with the magnets and windings available at the rpm the engine is turning.

Method two is to let the voltage "pile up" on the generator side of the regulator and only let the needed power come through as required by the load. In this method the energy that is not needed for the lights and ignition is actually never really produced so the crankshaft sees no load for the power you do not need. This would be the MOSFET type being talked about. They should run a lot cooler most of the time. There is no magic though. This method of regulation does not increase the maximum amount of power available.

In either case the measured voltage on the downstream side of the regulator should be what the regulator is set at. (13.8v or whatever.)

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Pretty sure the MOSFET regs, Shindengen and Trispark, are both shorting regs.
The Shindengen Series type or open type is SCR.
How do I know this?
Someone corrected me awhile back.
Hopefully their correction is correct.

Glen

worntorn said:

Pretty sure the MOSFET regs, Shindengen and Trispark, are both shorting regs.
The Shindengen Series type or open type is SCR.
How do I know this?
Someone corrected me awhile back.
Hopefully their correction is correct.

Glen

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Yep

L.A.B. said:

Ok so the Eclipse negative is connected to white.



Ok, so white/brown at the assimilator end is connected to 'ground' (to the red assimilator wire or elsewhere) just saying it's basically unnecessary as that section of white/brown could be eliminated.


Yes, I'm well acquainted with the wiring layout, however, there are some errors on that diagram.

https://granttiller.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1972-onwards-Commando-Original.png

"L.A.B from the Access Norton forum pointed out some inaccuracies of the factory diagram, so these have been changed:"

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As I see it, it's "6 of one half dozen of the other". Your method require cutting a wire in the bucket and hooking to ground there. Mine requires removal of a no longer needed component and splicing the wires at that point.








Existing warning light circuit is live when the key is turned on.



Just replace the existing warning light with the BSM LED and it's ready to go.

The blank warning light socket on the top right will have the ground wired to the oil pressure sending unit with power tapped from the BCM hot lead.

The BSM will be located between the turn indicator warning light and the headlight switch.