***IMPORTANT PLEASE READ (but don't panic)***

Not sure I fully understand all of the variables here, but from my perspective:

My 961 is a (Jul) 2015 Mk1 - none ABS/upside down forks (CR). The original wire rims are laced to cast(?) Talon hubs - assuming Talon because the rear sprocket is Talon (can’t see any hub markings whilst on stands). No sign of cracking, but then they were swapped out for the BST wheels within the first year.

I watched some of the process and the BST wheels were a straight swap. Wire wheels off, discs/sprocket swapped directly over, original mounting bolts used - BST wheels fitted. No adjustment needed; didn’t take long at all.

From what I can see, Birmingham Norton are not offering carbon wheels as an option on their 961 variants. Due to the ABS conflict? Cos both new variants offered are USD forks only? Or the cost involved in BST developing a new pattern carbon wheel set?

Discs haven’t changed(?) so if we have wire wheel alignment issues the hubs must have (obvious I know). Likely on Mk2’s only? By error? If by design then why - because Donington knew of the cracking? Or is this misalignment due to error introduced by an alternate hub supplier/manufacturer? Got to love a post that raises more questions than it answers:rolleyes:!

OK - I’ve just re-read this post and I’ve confused myself - gonna post it anyway! I have my original wire wheels available if any measurements are needed for those more educated in this discussion than I.

***IMPORTANT PLEASE READ (but don't panic)***
 
Hi Stephen , It looks as though you have the cast hubs . Mine on my late 2014 don't have the casting line. Do you see an N printed on the bottom of the spokes like Voodooo's bike ? This is the head end on the hub , on the ends I can see don't have them .
 
TonyA said:
Hi Stephen , It looks as though you have the cast hubs . Mine on my late 2014 don't have the casting line. Do you see an N printed on the bottom of the spokes like Voodooo's bike ? This is the head end on the hub , on the ends I can see don't have them .
Click to expand...

Hey Tony, no markings present as you can see.

The rear wheel spoke heads have quite pronounced doming apparent, as opposed to the front where none is present. Don’t know enough about the spoking of wheel - could this be caused by over-tightening? I understand though, that it’s on earlier front wheels were some failures are occurring.

Front Rear
4192DE64-1E34-4DB6-B535-90B11D21D931.jpeg 2AC0FCE3-C2AC-470C-A7C5-0319F9B21C61.jpeg
 
Wow, this is getting complex :) Maybe this will help..

TALON HUBS look like they are machined from billet so will have machining marks all over. They have squared off corners, look like they are anodized and have a glossy finish.The disc bolt holes are in the correct place.THESE ARE PRONE TO CRACKING.

HONHO HUBS are cast, so have a rougher finish, and casting mould lines, rounded corners and more meat around the spoke sockets. They appear to be painted. NO CRACKING REPORTED, but the disc bolt holes don’t quite line up.

BST WHEELS no issues reported.

EDIT: Tony's 2014 bike has Talon, and Stephen's 2015 HonHo. So maybe it's anything before 2015 that needs checking?
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Not sure I fully understand all of the variables here, but from my perspective:

My 961 is a (Jul) 2015 Mk1 - none ABS/upside down forks (CR). The original wire rims are laced to cast(?) Talon hubs - assuming Talon because the rear sprocket is Talon (can’t see any hub markings whilst on stands). No sign of cracking, but then they were swapped out for the BST wheels within the first year.

I watched some of the process and the BST wheels were a straight swap. Wire wheels off, discs/sprocket swapped directly over, original mounting bolts used - BST wheels fitted. No adjustment needed; didn’t take long at all.

From what I can see, Birmingham Norton are not offering carbon wheels as an option on their 961 variants. Due to the ABS conflict? Cos both new variants offered are USD forks only? Or the cost involved in BST developing a new pattern carbon wheel set?

Discs haven’t changed(?) so if we have wire wheel alignment issues the hubs must have (obvious I know). Likely on Mk2’s only? By error? If by design then why - because Donington knew of the cracking? Or is this misalignment due to error introduced by an alternate hub supplier/manufacturer? Got to love a post that raises more questions than it answers:rolleyes:!

OK - I’ve just re-read this post and I’ve confused myself - gonna post it anyway! I have my original wire wheels available if any measurements are needed for those more educated in this discussion than I.

View attachment 104117
Click to expand...
That is the later cast hub. If you put a vernier in two opposite holes up against the inner sides it should measure 73mm.
 
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cliffa said:
That is the later cast hub. If you put a vernier in two opposite holes up against the inner sides it should measure 72mm.
Click to expand...
Thanks Cliffa!

Its a special skill that I have, honed over many year, complicating things that is :rolleyes: ! I’ll measure up tomorrow and confirm.
 
cliffa said:
Wow, this is getting complex :) Maybe this will help..

TALON HUBS look like they are machined from billet so will have machining marks all over. They have squared off corners, look like they are anodized and have a glossy finish.The disc bolt holes are in the correct place.THESE ARE PRONE TO CRACKING.

HONHO HUBS are cast, so have a rougher finish, and casting mould lines, rounded corners and more meat around the spoke sockets. They appear to be painted. NO CRACKING REPORTED, but the disc bolt holes don’t quite line up.

BST WHEELS no issues reported.

EDIT: Tony's 2014 bike has Talon, and Stephen's 2015 HonHo. So maybe it's anything before 2015 that needs checking?
Click to expand...
Hi Cliffa , So the hubs (wheels) you are using now are the cast Honho's from a 2015 bike ? And you can see the witness marks on Stephens cast hub from the brake discs (zoom in) . It looks as though his brake disc bolts may have fit but were close to the edge ?
 
TonyA said:
Hi Cliffa , So the hubs (wheels) you are using now are the cast Honho's from a 2015 bike ? And you can see the witness marks on Stephens cast hub from the brake discs (zoom in) . It looks as though his brake disc bolts may have fit but were close to the edge ?
Click to expand...
Well spotted Tony, yes I have HonHo hubs now.

I blew up part of Stephen's picture where as you said the witness marks show the misalignment. I guess the factory must have just whizzed them in with a power tool, but I could not even get mine to start.

***IMPORTANT PLEASE READ (but don't panic)***
 
cliffa said:
Well spotted Tony, yes I have HonHo hubs now.

I blew up part of Stephen's picture where as you said the witness marks show the misalignment. I guess the factory must have just whizzed them in with a power tool, but I could not even get mine to start.

View attachment 104123
Click to expand...
So , This is where I will be fingers crossed that my bolts can thread in . Discs are kind of consumable like brake pads - here's to hope !
 
cliffa said:
That is the later cast hub. If you put a vernier in two opposite holes up against the inner sides it should measure 72mm.
Click to expand...
Hey Cliffa.

71 mm +/- 0.15 mm

Not exact of course, when measured with vernier calipers on the internal surface of (not very clean) blind holes 👀!

37D12D66-3ED1-4AAF-9A86-0A26DB12380F.jpeg

No visible signs of misalignment apparent. The mounting hole mentioned above is not misaligned (optical illusion) however, it does have an off-centre witness/mechanical marking as can be seen in the second image. It is the only mounting hole displaying this marking.

1F9BC4EC-9FE2-424F-BB5E-59CB5869CD07.jpeg 03988C97-0569-4C1B-89E2-757248F8605E.jpeg

No manufacturers markings of any type on these hubs, or anywhere on the wheels for that matter. Definitely HonHo (Taiwanese) hubs though, as shown on their website along with other 961 cast engine components.

Products - Honho CORP.(Aluminium Gravity Die Casting & Precise Parts Machining)

Aluminum Alloy Parts：Boat and Marine parts, ATV Parts, Agricultural Machinery Parts, Aerospace, Auto and Motorcycle Parts, Aluminum Alloy Cast Parts.
www.honho.com.tw www.honho.com.tw
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Hey Cliffa.

71 mm +/- 0.15 mm

Not exact of course, when measured with vernier calipers on the internal surface of (not very clean) blind holes 👀!

View attachment 104164

No visible signs of misalignment apparent. The mounting hole mentioned above is not misaligned (optical illusion) however, it does have an off-centre witness/mechanical marking as can be seen in the second image. It is the only mounting hole displaying this marking.

View attachment 104166 View attachment 104167

No manufacturers markings of any type on these hubs, or anywhere on the wheels for that matter. Definitely HonHo (Taiwanese) hubs though, as shown on their website along with other 961 cast engine components.

Products - Honho CORP.(Aluminium Gravity Die Casting & Precise Parts Machining)

Aluminum Alloy Parts：Boat and Marine parts, ATV Parts, Agricultural Machinery Parts, Aerospace, Auto and Motorcycle Parts, Aluminum Alloy Cast Parts.
www.honho.com.tw www.honho.com.tw
Click to expand...
Interestingly, on the HonHo site they are actually showing Talon hubs ( the black ones) next to their own. Perhaps they were sent them to replicate?

1677160806238.png


You can see that the Talon ones are much more angular.
 
Last edited:
Stephen_Spencer said:
Hey Cliffa.

71 mm +/- 0.15 mm

Not exact of course, when measured with vernier calipers on the internal surface of (not very clean) blind holes 👀!

View attachment 104164

No visible signs of misalignment apparent. The mounting hole mentioned above is not misaligned (optical illusion) however, it does have an off-centre witness/mechanical marking as can be seen in the second image. It is the only mounting hole displaying this marking.

View attachment 104166 View attachment 104167

No manufacturers markings of any type on these hubs, or anywhere on the wheels for that matter. Definitely HonHo (Taiwanese) hubs though, as shown on their website along with other 961 cast engine components.

Products - Honho CORP.(Aluminium Gravity Die Casting & Precise Parts Machining)

Aluminum Alloy Parts：Boat and Marine parts, ATV Parts, Agricultural Machinery Parts, Aerospace, Auto and Motorcycle Parts, Aluminum Alloy Cast Parts.
www.honho.com.tw www.honho.com.tw
Click to expand...
 
Hi Stephen , Thanks for taking the time to show this. We will pretty much have this all in the open soon. Can you recall how the brake discs holes lined up on the Honho hubs ? Do you have a photo of the rear and does it show any witness marks ? Looks like you have (had) the wheels I am trying to install ! The Honho Black rims India .
 
I made a slight mistake earlier which I have corrected. The Talon hub is 73mm across the bolt holes. (edge to edge).
 
SURELY… there has to be proper discs available ??

Honestly… slotting / opening up the holes is not a proper fix in this application.
 
Fast Eddie said:
SURELY… there has to be proper discs available ??

Honestly… slotting / opening up the holes is not a proper fix in this application.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping for no mods needed to my brake discs . Just fit them straight away just like Stephen's 2015 fit (fingers crossed) 🤞 . I thought Simon S. was chasing quality at Donington Norton ? ;)
 
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Fast Eddie said:
SURELY… there has to be proper discs available ??

Honestly… slotting / opening up the holes is not a proper fix in this application.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but how could you find them? I'm not aware of manufacturers listing by dimensions. Incidentally the same disc fit Ducati Sport Classic 1000. I bought a hub for one in the hope it could be adapted to fit (still working on that option). The bolt spacing is identical to the Talon hub.
 
Ok, but so far this issue is on one bike, one hub? or is it two bikes, one hub? Or are my movies getting mixed up??

Front-wheel only?

This morning I took off discs from two spoke front wheels we have in the shop and the spacing was fine. Cast hubs.
 
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