Ignition light
- Thread starter Nortoncommandoneil
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I have done the bulb test, thinking of doing it again with the ammeter connected, as the bulb does light but it is hard to determine if it is full brightness and the power draw is not even at the threshold of what I am consuming (45w at 13 volts is 3.5 amps)
I have sent a message to Alton, and a they have acknowledged it. Waiting for a reply.
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Odd.
Try this:
Amazon product ASIN B07K8LBZMK
Or search Amazon for "Motorcycle LED Voltmeter, DC 12V Motorcycle LED Display Digital Waterproof Voltmeter Air Temperature Time Clock Meter with Adhesive Pad for Car Motorcycle RV Boat ". That should find it for you.
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Just checked Amazon.com - it does not look to be available. I bought mine off of Amazon.ca (Canada)
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That's what I figured. I was principally after the clock function when I bought it, but the voltmeter seems to be what I am using the most - LOL!
Seems to work well. I 3D printed a bracket to mount is to the bars between the clamps.
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Get rid of the assimilator. Bypass it. Lots of info on this forum.
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Mine was replaced with an LED BSM many, many years ago.
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Did the charging system work properly at any time after installing the Alton? If so, was anything changed between that point and now? If so, disconnect everything that was installed between then and now, including that relay/voltmeter, and retest for voltage at the battery with a multimeter.
The Alton system is too new for weak rotor magnets to be an initial suspect. Certainly, it's not impossible but very unlikely. Have you checked all the wiring/connections in the charging circuit to make sure it's not a bad/poor connection somewhere?
FWIW, if working properly the Alton can easily keep up with the bike's normal electrical needs. I have had the Alton E-start on my Commando since '12 with no charging problem at all and I have original-type incandescent bulbs everywhere.
Good Luck!!!
The Alton system is too new for weak rotor magnets to be an initial suspect. Certainly, it's not impossible but very unlikely. Have you checked all the wiring/connections in the charging circuit to make sure it's not a bad/poor connection somewhere?
FWIW, if working properly the Alton can easily keep up with the bike's normal electrical needs. I have had the Alton E-start on my Commando since '12 with no charging problem at all and I have original-type incandescent bulbs everywhere.
Good Luck!!!
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Hi Mike - Thanks!! There is no doubt in my mind that this thing will be adequate for my needs if it can be made to operate per Alton's claims. My bike only needs 61 watts to operate (including the voltmeter), so 90-95 watts will charge the battery beautifully. But right now I am only getting about 48 watts.
I did test it with a volt meter just after I installed it. It did appear to charge 13.75 volts at about 3000-4000 RPM, but I can't remember if I tested it with the headlight on or not. I did not run all of the tests that Alton prescribes as I was not aware of them at that time.
I have been working with Alton over the past few days and have passed along all of my all of my test findings to them, both their prescribed tests and some load testing that I have been doing myself. I have isolated all circuits and added components; they all check out. The ammeter function in my multimeter has been getting a work out. (BTW - I am a automotive engineer in my day job - over the past 30 years, troubleshooting these kind of problems has become almost routine... LOL!!)
Alton have got back to me this morning and do feel that I have a weak rotor. They are sending me a new rotor. For them, the telling part is the fact that it would not put up 22-24 VAC until nearly 4000 RPM.
I have still been riding the bike, just choosing routes that I can keep the engine speed up at 4000+ RPM, and switching to the pilot light from time to time as traffic / road conditions permit, or when stopped. City traffic and low speed limits are to be avoided, which is fine by me - hate riding through there anyway.
I went for a 2 hour ride last night and got home with the volt meter reading nearly the same as when I left. It will not charge the battery over 12.8 volts while riding with the headlight on. It will eventually get up to 13.6 volts when I switch to the pilot light.
I then connect the battery maintainer when I get home.
Other than the lack-luster alternator performance, the bike is working great. The nights are cooling off and getting a bit damp, so it thinks it is back in England, which it likes - LOL!!
Fingers crossed that the new rotor arrives quickly and solves the problem.
Side note: I have learned that there is nothing wrong with a good working rectifier and zener diode set up. I definitely won't be wasting any money on any sort of Podtronics or fancy electronic regulators in the future - just have to remember to pull the wire off the zener when the battery maintainer is connected
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Follow-up:
The new rotor arrived today from Alton. I did an impromptu pull test with a luggage scale to test the new rotor against the old, and the magnets in the new rotor are definitely stronger (6.2-9.2 lbs versus 9.7-13.2 lbs).
Installing it in the bike, the alternator output is much improved, hitting 14 volts at 4000 RPM very quickly and holding over 13 volts at 3000 RPM, with all normal loads on. I have not done a current check yet, but this alternator will definitely meet all my loads and keep the battery charged.
The new rotor arrived today from Alton. I did an impromptu pull test with a luggage scale to test the new rotor against the old, and the magnets in the new rotor are definitely stronger (6.2-9.2 lbs versus 9.7-13.2 lbs).
Installing it in the bike, the alternator output is much improved, hitting 14 volts at 4000 RPM very quickly and holding over 13 volts at 3000 RPM, with all normal loads on. I have not done a current check yet, but this alternator will definitely meet all my loads and keep the battery charged.
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Why would the magnets fail ?Follow-up:
The new rotor arrived today from Alton. I did an impromptu pull test with a luggage scale to test the new rotor against the old, and the magnets in the new rotor are definitely stronger (6.2-9.2 lbs versus 9.7-13.2 lbs).
Installing it in the bike, the alternator output is much improved, hitting 14 volts at 4000 RPM very quickly and holding over 13 volts at 3000 RPM, with all normal loads on. I have not done a current check yet, but this alternator will definitely meet all my loads and keep the battery charged.
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I've fitted my commandos with incandescent bulbs running on a 16.5 Ah 210 CCA (MBTX14AU) Motobatt, and CWL+Oil warning system by Improving Classic Motorcycles. Batteries degrade by the charging/discharge cycles and just with time. Ensuring you get a freshly manufactured battery and the strongest one available (Ah & CCA) that will fit is always a good insurance policy in my opinion. I write the date installed on them and discard them after three years, at most! I had a frightening experience when my starter relay or the starter switch or the starter (don't care, you'll see why) locked up and shorted out burning up the starter cable until I pulled the low voltage wire off the relay. I promptly removed the relay because I can easily start my bike without using a starter. I've never pushed the starter button on my other 75 and next time I service the battery I have no plans of reattaching the relay supply cable to the battery. I guess I'm suffering from Norton-starter PTSD!
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i think they were likely weak right from the start. I noticed my battery going down within 2 weeks of installing the system. Stop and go traffic was where I noticed the problem the most. Most of my riding is outside the city, so I could keep the revs up, and it would almost keep up. If I were running incandescent lights, it would have been much worse.
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I experienced a similar problem when helping a friend install an Alton starter on his MK2A. After the install we checked the voltage while running with headlight/tail light on , At idle
the output voltage was barely 12V and would peak a 12.7 V @ 2000 RPM and above . The short story is that I put my oscilloscope on the output leads from the Alton without a load and found a nice waveform with high amplitude , Reconnecting the alternator again to the bike and monitoring the output with the scope the output was about one third the output. We found an interesting thing , The stator and rotor widths are substantially thinner than the original Lucas units obviously to fit in the smaller primary case. Look closely at your stator and make sure the rotor and stator are in the same plane this is critical for maximum output. The Lucas stators are more forgiving because the rotor magnets are wider . To get the stator aligned properly on the Alton we put washers behind the stator to shim it out. We ended up with using 1/4" spacers to align them correctly . At Idle the output is 12.7 V and @
1500 RPM 13.3 V and 13.8 V @ 2000 RPM and above. Be sure to "clay" the distance between the stator and the outer primary cover because it will be quite close.. just to make sure the stator is not in contact with the cover. Hope this helps.
Chuck
the output voltage was barely 12V and would peak a 12.7 V @ 2000 RPM and above . The short story is that I put my oscilloscope on the output leads from the Alton without a load and found a nice waveform with high amplitude , Reconnecting the alternator again to the bike and monitoring the output with the scope the output was about one third the output. We found an interesting thing , The stator and rotor widths are substantially thinner than the original Lucas units obviously to fit in the smaller primary case. Look closely at your stator and make sure the rotor and stator are in the same plane this is critical for maximum output. The Lucas stators are more forgiving because the rotor magnets are wider . To get the stator aligned properly on the Alton we put washers behind the stator to shim it out. We ended up with using 1/4" spacers to align them correctly . At Idle the output is 12.7 V and @
1500 RPM 13.3 V and 13.8 V @ 2000 RPM and above. Be sure to "clay" the distance between the stator and the outer primary cover because it will be quite close.. just to make sure the stator is not in contact with the cover. Hope this helps.
Chuck
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