I see the light...

gortnipper said:

Nigel, What happens wrt main/dip using a halogen on your bike? Just wondering if this is a switching behaviour?

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Same thing, only one filament at a time. So I’m assuming it’s ‘standard’ switching behaviour.

I’m also assuming that those LEDs that keep not dip and main when on main, are doing so through internal bulb wiring.

Does that sound right folks?

Fast Eddie said:

Same thing, only one filament at a time. So I’m assuming it’s ‘standard’ switching behaviour.

I’m also assuming that those LEDs that keep not dip and main when on main, are doing so through internal bulb wiring.

Does that sound right folks?

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Not to me. Bulbs are dumb, especially filament bulbs.

My and others' run main and dip. So does te Duc. Maybe it is an H4 thing? But I bet if you checked you could wire yours for main and dip.

Looks that way to me.

Gortniper, I’ve just noticed a typo in my post that I suspect means we are now talking cross purposes!

I wrote “those LEDs that keep not dip and main when on main, are doing so through internal bulb wiring”.

I did not mean to write “not”.

What I mean to write was “those LEDs that keep BOTH dip and main on, when on main, are doing so through internal bulb wiring”.

I wrote this in response to earlier posters who said that this is what he had: both filaments on when on main.

However, a quick check in my shed, which currently has 3 Brit and 1 Italian, ranging in years from ‘68 to ‘19, shows all of them switch from main to dip. None have both filaments on together for main. And that’s with halogens or LEDs fitted.

So, the only way I’m gonna get both filaments on at once is either by buying a bulb that does this by design (no idea if they exist or not, I’ll see if Goff knows) or re wiring things, which I don’t want to do, partly because I can’t be arsed and partly because I’m worried about the heat of having both filaments (or LEDs) on together in a set up that’s not design for it.

I think the diagram you posted supports my shed findings as it clearly shows the light circuit being switched EITHER from dip to main and NOT both.

So, anyone who’s bike does have both filaments (or LEDs) on at once either has a bulb that is wired this way internally, or different wiring to that diagram.

An H4 plug has three prongs: dip hot, main hot, earth. You simply need to put current to both hot prongs to get both on.

What switchbolck do you have controlling the main/dip?

gortnipper said:

An H4 plug has three prongs: dip hot, main hot, earth. You simply need to put current to both hot prongs to get both on.

What switchbolck do you have controlling the main/dip?

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I edited my post as I think a typo on my part is causing confusion between us...

I'm really confused now!!
Mind you it happens a lot these days

Ask Goff. I am no electricky expert either.

I have a CNW switch block and a Goff LD BPF.

Dip


Main, both on

I cant exacrly remember how I wired my shell when I did the resto mod. But, if you were to put in a splitter (similar to the one to main beam/warning) between the TPLS and the switch block, and to the dip beam, then when the key is in the correct position the dip is always on when the toggle is also on, regardless of main beam.

May be teaching granny to suck eggs but remember if you wire both filaments (old school lamps) to be on with main beam you are almost doubling the current drawn from around 5 to 10 amps. A challenge for the charging system but more importantly is the wiring/switch capable of carrying that on both feed and earth side?

Not sure how the LED bulbs work their magic but suspect that's the internal wiring and which individual LEDs are switched on for dip and main positions. Overall current draw much less so probably not an issue.

H-4 filaments emit light 360 degrees which allows the reflector to pickup all the light and send it forward.
The low beam filament is shielded on top to limit that light and keep it low.
The high beam filament is not shielded there by sending light out higher, and is at a higher wattage.
Probably not necessary to have both filaments lit on high. Eats a lot of power, produces more heat and the high beam filament is at a higher wattage anyway. Plus there is an interesting side affect with multiple light sources aimed at the same point, when they cross over each other they can produce dark spots in certain areas.

LED‘s only send their light source out to the sides and do not use 100% of the reflector, that’s why sometimes you will see a double bright spot in front of you and a dark area in the middle.
To my eyes LED’s always seem to be a more diffused light. I have a couple of LED wand lights which light up the area but when I need a really focused light I resort to a regular light source, usually a quartz work light. But that could just be my eyes.

Just my two cents, but I spent some time testing this stuff out a while ago and these were my observations.
Pete

Fast Eddie said:

Same thing, only one filament at a time. So I’m assuming it’s ‘standard’ switching behaviour.

I’m also assuming that those LEDs that keep not dip and main when on main, are doing so through internal bulb wiring.

Does that sound right folks?

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The other noticeable difference is that the plug wiring to the 5K LED is swapped to the opposite side

Gadge said:

May be teaching granny to suck eggs but remember if you wire both filaments (old school lamps) to be on with main beam you are almost doubling the current drawn from around 5 to 10 amps. A challenge for the charging system but more importantly is the wiring/switch capable of carrying that on both feed and earth side?

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This ^^. My Buick has a 130 amp alternator and doesn't care how many lights are on. My Norton, not so.

Not sure how the LED bulbs work their magic but suspect that's the internal wiring and which individual LEDs are switched on for dip and main positions. Overall current draw much less so probably not an issue.

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It's the HEAT that they dissipate that's an issue. Witness the heatsink fins and/or fans that they come with. If the bulb is designed to power both hi/low at the same time, OK. But I certainly wouldn't do that on my own.

maylar said:

It's the HEAT that they dissipate that's an issue. Witness the heatsink fins and/or fans that they come with. If the bulb is designed to power both hi/low at the same time, OK. But I certainly wouldn't do that on my own.

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Yessir... that’s where I’m at too.

My LED headlight works like Gortnipper's. I get the top half of the LED illuminated for "dip", and both halves illuminated for "Main".

That was what I said in my original comment. I said it because my LED worked differently than Nigel's, and I wondered if the Goff LED or my own worked differently by design...


.... and now to throw a monkey wrench into the works. When I am on dip setting, I can use the "headlight flasher" button on my left cluster to flash the main LED on and off. It's really useful to signal cars ahead of me that I am going to pass them.

Regarding the ‘dip staying on when on main beam’ discussion...

I actually had to put sunglasses on and squint to make sure I was seeing what was going on with the LED bulbs. And I had to remove the bulbs from the lens to be totally sure of what I was seeing.

It’s easier to see what’s happening with the halogens when looking through the lens, but the LEDs just fill the lens with so much bright light it’s too difficult to see what’s what.

Taking pictures ‘head on’ of the headlamp doesn’t work either as it just gives one big glow.

But I noticed the reflection in my glass door, so took a couple of pics. What is interesting is that it looks like the dip is lit even when on main beam, but I can assure you it is not.

These pics are of the 5k Goff, and LED pilot, in the Lucas lens, and I’m pretty sure this is what I’m sticking with...

This is dip beam, the dip ‘filament’ is in the upper half of the lens (the light you can see in the lower half is the fantastic LED pilot light bulb):


This is main beam, it looks like you can still see the dip filament in the upper half of the lens, but it’s not, it’s the main filament reflecting:

maylar said:

It's the HEAT that they dissipate that's an issue. Witness the heatsink fins and/or fans that they come with

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They produce a lot less heat than a halogen due to the lower amps needed due to higher efficiency of electricity to lumens, what they do suffer from is heat getting to the surface mount chips feeding 5 v to the LED chips, hence the fans to cool these bits. Turn off the fan and the lumens drop significantly as the chips suffer.

you are getting double reflection. the glass door reflects and light back to the headlight so it looks bright all over. Just take a picture of the light spread against a close proximity, non-reflective surface... You'll see which parts of the LED are lit for each setting...

... and AS I said, maybe your LED is designed to work the way it does, and mine is designed differently. Only Goff can answer that question because it's their design. I didn't say "better or worse", I was just curious that our LED's worked differently.

What are you using for a pilot lamp?

maylar said:

What are you using for a pilot lamp?

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Goffs 10mm T10 capless ‘wedge’ bulbs... I bought the holder with it: “Pt.no. With holder LDT10DWH £7.50”

The bulb alone is “Pt.no. Without holder LDT10DW £4.00”

Undoubtedly these are available cheaper elsewhere if you know where to look and what to look for, which I don’t !