I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrades
- Thread starter Larso1
- Start date
- Status
Fast Eddie
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 21,721
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
I totally understand your point Bill. And I think that you are absolutely correct... for you!
But I don't understand why other peoples passions seem to annoy or perplex you so much?
It would have been difficult for me to buy a '74 Commando new, on account of me being 6 or 7 years old!
But having got one now, I love it. It is a fun, cool, enjoyable classic. A bike that I don't feel the need to get dressed up like a power ranger to enjoy. A bike that I don't mind getting rained on. That I can park up without worrying about it because it is too precious or valuable.
But does that mean I'm not allowed to modify it? Does that mean I have to put up with the very substandard front brake? Or loss of performance due to the pathetic 7.6:1 compression ratio? Does it mean I must fit period 1970's tires instead of more modern and confidence inspiring Avons? Must I stick to points ignition too?
Why?
I like my Commando a lot. I plan on liking it a lot more when I've done a few mods that address the above points. Buying a Japanese bike that is faster just wouldn't satisfy my urges at all!
I guess 'one mans meat is another mans poison'.
Personally, I have never owned a motorcycle that I have not modified in some way, shape or form.
And I have no intention of bucking this trend with the Commando!
Enjoy yours Bill (as I assume you must do after all these years) and I'll try to enjoy mine too.
Larso1 said:
I totally understand your point Bill. And I think that you are absolutely correct... for you!
But I don't understand why other peoples passions seem to annoy or perplex you so much?
It would have been difficult for me to buy a '74 Commando new, on account of me being 6 or 7 years old!
But having got one now, I love it. It is a fun, cool, enjoyable classic. A bike that I don't feel the need to get dressed up like a power ranger to enjoy. A bike that I don't mind getting rained on. That I can park up without worrying about it because it is too precious or valuable.
But does that mean I'm not allowed to modify it? Does that mean I have to put up with the very substandard front brake? Or loss of performance due to the pathetic 7.6:1 compression ratio? Does it mean I must fit period 1970's tires instead of more modern and confidence inspiring Avons? Must I stick to points ignition too?
Why?
I like my Commando a lot. I plan on liking it a lot more when I've done a few mods that address the above points. Buying a Japanese bike that is faster just wouldn't satisfy my urges at all!
I guess 'one mans meat is another mans poison'.
Personally, I have never owned a motorcycle that I have not modified in some way, shape or form.
And I have no intention of bucking this trend with the Commando!
Enjoy yours Bill (as I assume you must do after all these years) and I'll try to enjoy mine too.
rvich
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,188
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Its funny, I see that we have a new section for the 961. Maybe we need a new section for people who want to work on their vintage Commandos but not change anything. There are a certain number of people here who think that they shouldn't be altered from stock. I suspect that the threads would have a lot of language about what you are and are not allowed to do to a bike and still consider it stock.
Of course the Commando is sort of the last of an era in which people were supposed to be hands-on users. Yeah I know it was necessary. But frankly, for people who don't like to tinker with their bikes, why are they not all riding Hondas by now? I don't understand the attraction the Commando would have to anybody who didn't like to fettle, tinker, and mess about with dirty hands. And for anybody who does like to do that stuff, the temptation to change shit is irresistible.
Russ
Its funny, I see that we have a new section for the 961. Maybe we need a new section for people who want to work on their vintage Commandos but not change anything. There are a certain number of people here who think that they shouldn't be altered from stock. I suspect that the threads would have a lot of language about what you are and are not allowed to do to a bike and still consider it stock.
Of course the Commando is sort of the last of an era in which people were supposed to be hands-on users. Yeah I know it was necessary. But frankly, for people who don't like to tinker with their bikes, why are they not all riding Hondas by now? I don't understand the attraction the Commando would have to anybody who didn't like to fettle, tinker, and mess about with dirty hands. And for anybody who does like to do that stuff, the temptation to change shit is irresistible.
Russ
grandpaul
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2008
- Messages
- 13,613
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Sounds like the original poster originally came here for tech help on a problem build, then found out this a much more well-rounded forum that gets into a lot more than basic tech.
(as it should be)
Sounds like the original poster originally came here for tech help on a problem build, then found out this a much more well-rounded forum that gets into a lot more than basic tech.
(as it should be)
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
I did the 400 odd mile Duffy Loop dayride this year on the Triumph 955i. It was perfect, absolutely vibration free at all rpms, silly amounts of power, silky smooth brakes. In the past I have done it on the Commando and on the Vincent. For some reason it was more fun on the old bikes. If I do that ride again next year, or any others like it, I will definitely take an old bike. I also did a 3100 mile nine day ride on the Vincent this summer(Norton Rally, Wyoming) now that was fun!
My only complaint about using the Commando for this type of riding is that the stock front brake gets hot and loses function right when you need it most. That is why I fitted the big six pot front brake that Don Pender (Madass) sells. Now the Commando is a real joy to ride fast thru the Mountains.
The bike really doesnt need anymore power, for some reason it feels very strong even when getting on it after riding a very fast modern bike. Any engine mods I would do to this bike would be to add a bit without hurting the wonderful midrange. Jim's big valve conversion is ideal because it adds a bit all the way along. A small compression increase also helps the whole power band, not just the top end. I have already felt this just by using a thin head gasket. It really seemed to wake the bike up, made the squish band work.
As far as the Vmax, Rocket three and other heavyweight bikes, they hold no interest for me. Who wants to wrestle a two wheeled car around? As I get older the idea of a lighter bike that still has grunt is very appealing.
While on that subject, we now have a New Commando forum, a Commando Classic forum, could we perhaps add a Commando Lite forum? I'm thinking Ludwig's bike and a couple of others could go there
Glen
I did the 400 odd mile Duffy Loop dayride this year on the Triumph 955i. It was perfect, absolutely vibration free at all rpms, silly amounts of power, silky smooth brakes. In the past I have done it on the Commando and on the Vincent. For some reason it was more fun on the old bikes. If I do that ride again next year, or any others like it, I will definitely take an old bike. I also did a 3100 mile nine day ride on the Vincent this summer(Norton Rally, Wyoming) now that was fun!
My only complaint about using the Commando for this type of riding is that the stock front brake gets hot and loses function right when you need it most. That is why I fitted the big six pot front brake that Don Pender (Madass) sells. Now the Commando is a real joy to ride fast thru the Mountains.
The bike really doesnt need anymore power, for some reason it feels very strong even when getting on it after riding a very fast modern bike. Any engine mods I would do to this bike would be to add a bit without hurting the wonderful midrange. Jim's big valve conversion is ideal because it adds a bit all the way along. A small compression increase also helps the whole power band, not just the top end. I have already felt this just by using a thin head gasket. It really seemed to wake the bike up, made the squish band work.
As far as the Vmax, Rocket three and other heavyweight bikes, they hold no interest for me. Who wants to wrestle a two wheeled car around? As I get older the idea of a lighter bike that still has grunt is very appealing.
While on that subject, we now have a New Commando forum, a Commando Classic forum, could we perhaps add a Commando Lite forum? I'm thinking Ludwig's bike and a couple of others could go there
Glen
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
sorry to hear about your woe's BUT IMHO a properly sorted commando is as reliable as anything else so just maybe it is owner induced issues.
looks like it. there are some things that NEED improvement on these old bikes to fix your issues of high maintenance.
just maybe you need to listen to the more knowledgeable people on here about how to build a reliable bike
sorry to hear about your woe's BUT IMHO a properly sorted commando is as reliable as anything else so just maybe it is owner induced issues.
Larso1 said:
looks like it. there are some things that NEED improvement on these old bikes to fix your issues of high maintenance.
Larso1 said:
just maybe you need to listen to the more knowledgeable people on here about how to build a reliable bike
Larso1 said:
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,112
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
To each his own.
There is a search engine where you can find only the posts that interest you.
I find the information here very useful and interesting even if I don't intend to use it on my bike.
But then that is me.
To each his own.
There is a search engine where you can find only the posts that interest you.
I find the information here very useful and interesting even if I don't intend to use it on my bike.
But then that is me.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2011
- Messages
- 866
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
I sometimes think to myself how much easier life would be without my commando. I wouldn't have to think about how to fix all the issues I've had with it since I bought it... but then when I get on it and ride around it's fantastic. No it's not really that fast any longer. If I want a fast bike I will ride my Bonneville. Hell, my Harley cruiser will cruise down the highway at 100+ comfortably. But the Norton is sexy... It's like going out with a crazy hot model who is also a psychopath. On good days it's awesome, on bad days, well, it's really bad.
I sometimes think to myself how much easier life would be without my commando. I wouldn't have to think about how to fix all the issues I've had with it since I bought it... but then when I get on it and ride around it's fantastic. No it's not really that fast any longer. If I want a fast bike I will ride my Bonneville. Hell, my Harley cruiser will cruise down the highway at 100+ comfortably. But the Norton is sexy... It's like going out with a crazy hot model who is also a psychopath. On good days it's awesome, on bad days, well, it's really bad.
rvich
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,188
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
By the way, Bill (larso1), are you looking to sell your '74 850? Just askin...
While I'm waiting on a response I will tell a story. Back about 1990 I was driving a landing craft around SE Alaska delivering freight to remote communities. I was delivering a drill rig to a remote site and had the drillers on board. One of them had guided some bear hunting trips and had some Zeiss binoculars that had been given to him as a tip. They had cost 1400 dollars. I was using 70 dollar Tascos for my boat binoculars. I said something about how I would never pay 1400 bucks for binoculars. The guy said "Really? Here try 'em out" as he handed them to me. I put them to my eyes and was stunned. I didn't know they made optics like that. I handed them back to him and said "Uh, I guess if I could afford them I wouldn't ever use anything else!"
So were they worth 20 times what my Tasco binoculars were? Who can say? Because you don't get Zeiss quality without paying for it. To say this experience opened my eyes is an understatement and yes the pun is intended. There are so many examples of this in life. You literally can't know what you are missing until you experience it. Only afterward can you decide if it was worth it or not.
Better flowing heads? Friction fighting oil? Lighter wheels? Better stopping brakes? Zeiss binoculars?
Just food for thought.
Russ
By the way, Bill (larso1), are you looking to sell your '74 850? Just askin...
While I'm waiting on a response I will tell a story. Back about 1990 I was driving a landing craft around SE Alaska delivering freight to remote communities. I was delivering a drill rig to a remote site and had the drillers on board. One of them had guided some bear hunting trips and had some Zeiss binoculars that had been given to him as a tip. They had cost 1400 dollars. I was using 70 dollar Tascos for my boat binoculars. I said something about how I would never pay 1400 bucks for binoculars. The guy said "Really? Here try 'em out" as he handed them to me. I put them to my eyes and was stunned. I didn't know they made optics like that. I handed them back to him and said "Uh, I guess if I could afford them I wouldn't ever use anything else!"
So were they worth 20 times what my Tasco binoculars were? Who can say? Because you don't get Zeiss quality without paying for it. To say this experience opened my eyes is an understatement and yes the pun is intended. There are so many examples of this in life. You literally can't know what you are missing until you experience it. Only afterward can you decide if it was worth it or not.
Better flowing heads? Friction fighting oil? Lighter wheels? Better stopping brakes? Zeiss binoculars?
Just food for thought.
Russ
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
I'm nearly 60 with no engineering background. Went on a package tour 3 years ago, riding Bullets in the Himalayas. Liked it so much that I got one when I got home, and found that I like tinkering. Then went and bought a Commando, THE bike of everyone's dreams when I was at school. There is something very satisfying about the beast working a bit better after you've repaired it than it was before it broke down.
I've never been a particularly fast rider, and on A and B roads the Commando has enough power for me. It's happy commuting, and happy doing long trips. But get it on song, with the engine snarling, around the twisty roads of mid Wales, and it's utterly brilliant.
I'm nearly 60 with no engineering background. Went on a package tour 3 years ago, riding Bullets in the Himalayas. Liked it so much that I got one when I got home, and found that I like tinkering. Then went and bought a Commando, THE bike of everyone's dreams when I was at school. There is something very satisfying about the beast working a bit better after you've repaired it than it was before it broke down.
I've never been a particularly fast rider, and on A and B roads the Commando has enough power for me. It's happy commuting, and happy doing long trips. But get it on song, with the engine snarling, around the twisty roads of mid Wales, and it's utterly brilliant.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 11,531
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Porsche? You compared a /5 to a high performance car? :roll:
I think you meant to say VW...
Unclviny said:
Porsche? You compared a /5 to a high performance car? :roll:
I think you meant to say VW...
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2013
- Messages
- 64
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
The Britbike forum has separate forums for standard bikes, modified & specials, and competition. Seems like a good idea, then for people who don't understand why people do what they do, they can just not go there. Personally, I love the performance upgrade posts and many are upgrades that do nothing more then correct the faults or inadequacies of these old bikes and make them more user friendly without detracting from the character of the original design. If you don't get it then that's ok too, life is to short to worry about such things and I find the people who care to do these upgrades interesting and enjoy following their thought and production processes...without them this would be a rather boring place I think...Mark
The Britbike forum has separate forums for standard bikes, modified & specials, and competition. Seems like a good idea, then for people who don't understand why people do what they do, they can just not go there. Personally, I love the performance upgrade posts and many are upgrades that do nothing more then correct the faults or inadequacies of these old bikes and make them more user friendly without detracting from the character of the original design. If you don't get it then that's ok too, life is to short to worry about such things and I find the people who care to do these upgrades interesting and enjoy following their thought and production processes...without them this would be a rather boring place I think...Mark
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Dave,
Have you ever ridden a R75/5? I doubt speed and acceleration of the Commando and the R75 are very much different. The noise factor is considerably different. And we all know noise is fast. Just ask a Harley rider.
swooshdave said:
Dave,
Have you ever ridden a R75/5? I doubt speed and acceleration of the Commando and the R75 are very much different. The noise factor is considerably different. And we all know noise is fast. Just ask a Harley rider.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,253
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Now that we have heard several people try to rationalize the basically irrational act of hopping up a Commando, I would like to hear someone rationalize restoring a Commando. [especially twice] Jim
Now that we have heard several people try to rationalize the basically irrational act of hopping up a Commando, I would like to hear someone rationalize restoring a Commando. [especially twice] Jim
texasSlick
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,258
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Good post!....Sort of says it all ....I'm going back to my restoration now...
Cheers all,
Slick
comnoz said:
Good post!....Sort of says it all ....I'm going back to my restoration now...
Cheers all,
Slick
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
- Messages
- 11,531
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
Of course I've ridden one.
You doubt the acceleration isn't very different between a Norton and a /5? :roll:
Let's see if anyone backs you up on this.
JimC said:
Of course I've ridden one.
You doubt the acceleration isn't very different between a Norton and a /5? :roll:
Let's see if anyone backs you up on this.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,253
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
When I rode to Barbers this summer I rode with 3 others. 1 rs1200, 1 rs1100 and a Triumph 900 Trident. I was pleased to find my Commando would out-accelerate the 2 BMWs but not the Trident. But that was alright. We had to stop every 135 miles because of the 3 gallon tank on the Trident. The Trident would take 3 gallons, the BMWs would take 2.9 gallons and my Norton would take 2 gallons. heh-heh. Jim
When I rode to Barbers this summer I rode with 3 others. 1 rs1200, 1 rs1100 and a Triumph 900 Trident. I was pleased to find my Commando would out-accelerate the 2 BMWs but not the Trident. But that was alright. We had to stop every 135 miles because of the 3 gallon tank on the Trident. The Trident would take 3 gallons, the BMWs would take 2.9 gallons and my Norton would take 2 gallons. heh-heh. Jim
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
- 14,110
Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad
I agree with Russ. My Seeley 850 is totally and unashamedly modified in most respects as I built it as a development project out of parts from scratch, for the purpose of racing . If I ever bought a fairly standard commando I would work on it fanatically to get it to be like the day it came from the factory. A commando is what it is, and to see the real deal without bullshit after-market or bodged up parts hanging off it is a beautiful experience. If the mods are internal, that is sort of OK however does not thrill me much. One of the nicest bikes I've seen in recent years was in the car park at Phillip Island - a perfectly original Thruxton Velocette. I believe the BMW boxer twin is the perfect road bike, however I cannot see myself enjoying rustling down the Hume Highway on one, I would go numb in the brain as well as the backside.
I know why guys fit single Mikuni carburetors to commandos - however that is so bloody wrong !
There is a commonly used definition of the term 'quality'. It is 'fit for purpose '. However a better definition is 'fit for purpose with obvious attention to detail'. (The Chinese are not there yet, and it is the basis on which we must compete in the global market place ). I suggest that a lot in life depends on values.
Beautiful except for the caliper mount ? :
And the other extreme, however just as beautiful :
Both are 'fit for purpose with obvious attention to detail' !
I agree with Russ. My Seeley 850 is totally and unashamedly modified in most respects as I built it as a development project out of parts from scratch, for the purpose of racing . If I ever bought a fairly standard commando I would work on it fanatically to get it to be like the day it came from the factory. A commando is what it is, and to see the real deal without bullshit after-market or bodged up parts hanging off it is a beautiful experience. If the mods are internal, that is sort of OK however does not thrill me much. One of the nicest bikes I've seen in recent years was in the car park at Phillip Island - a perfectly original Thruxton Velocette. I believe the BMW boxer twin is the perfect road bike, however I cannot see myself enjoying rustling down the Hume Highway on one, I would go numb in the brain as well as the backside.
I know why guys fit single Mikuni carburetors to commandos - however that is so bloody wrong !
There is a commonly used definition of the term 'quality'. It is 'fit for purpose '. However a better definition is 'fit for purpose with obvious attention to detail'. (The Chinese are not there yet, and it is the basis on which we must compete in the global market place ). I suggest that a lot in life depends on values.
Beautiful except for the caliper mount ? :
And the other extreme, however just as beautiful :
Both are 'fit for purpose with obvious attention to detail' !
- Status