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Hunting and High idle permanent fix! - TRIAL

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by richard-7, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Cool. Thanks Rob.
     
  2. BritTwit

    BritTwit

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    The manual seems to show a gasket with O rings between the throttle body and gasket, and between the head and gasket.
    I checked my 2013 961, and I can't see any gasket.
    Certainly nothing 1/16 of an inch thick. That would be very apparent.
    Hmmmm.

    [​IMG]Hosted on Fotki
     
  3. richard-7

    richard-7

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    My dads red SF has this gasket. The first 10 bikes in Canada have this gasket. The rest don’t. My dads SF is the 5th bike in canada and first red bike in Canada. My dads 2013 SE was the 30-somthing-th bike in canada. So must have been a change during that time. Also, when we asked about it in 2014 Simon said it was unnecessary so we left it at that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  4. Rob Jameson - Norton UK

    Rob Jameson - Norton UK

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    The gasket was obsoleted at some point before my time - presumably because it was found to not be necessary.

    It was re-introduced for euro 4 because they run hotter so it is necessary to isolate some of the heat.
     
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  5. Garth

    Garth

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2018
    Just clarifying... this ball bearing you put in the hose between the IAM and the air box, I'm assuming, is large enough to block air altogether or am I totally misunderstanding. I would like to try this before going down the route of ECU upgrade
     
  6. richard-7

    richard-7

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014

    You got it. Basically anything to block the air.
     
  7. bill

    bill

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    this is unreal. i also see that rob has not addressed this on line but has answered some other things you posted. IMHO the factory should be happy that you guys are keeping the flag flying in canada after all you have put up with from them.

     
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  8. richard-7

    richard-7

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Because its crappy weather im not able to test it if the washers under the bolt heads will work. If they do work and the entire time it was a vacuum leak then I will be removing the ball. We do smoke tests on engines and have found loose bolts and a leak at this flange but high idle being so inconsistent, we never found a leak in my bike here. Could be so slight and we missed it because its only when the bike is super hot. Try placing washers under the heads of your bolts first. If that doesn’t do anything then try the ball. The ball for sure works for me but as was brought up, i have o2 eliminated so that may keep me safe. Rob said you’ll blow the engine so please only give it a try to prove the IAM is the cause.

    Im convinced the IAM is the real issue here. Maybe the wrong one not designed for heat. Or maybe in thr wrong spot. Too close to heat. Or maybe the ECU is not providing it enough power hence why the ECU upgrade is recommended because it may provide more power to this IAM to move it when it starts binding from heat. When we brought this issue up to Simon years ago, he told us its our fuel thats the problem and we need to clean the IAM more often. hence why I have a manual on it. But it really didn’t make a difference. And canada has great ethanol free fuel.

    So ?????? Not sure what to say. But temporarily blocking will prove if your bike can run amazing. Please convince yourself you should try it and don’t listen to me on this one. Im only sharing what I did and you’re welcome to try it too.
     
  9. regental

    regental

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Im convinced the IAM is the real issue here. Maybe the wrong one not designed for heat. Or maybe in thr wrong spot. Too close to heat. Or maybe the ECU is not providing it enough power hence why the ECU upgrade is recommended because it may provide more power to this IAM to move it when it starts binding from heat.

    My previous 2012 bike with SC ECU suffered from high idle - anything up to 2800rpm - the factory changed the IAM but no difference - I wrapped the IAM in exhaust bandage to protect it from the heat & that solved it
     
  10. richard-7

    richard-7

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014

    Thats great info!!!!
    Thanks for sharing!!!!!

    So perhaps it was a mistake that the heat insulation plate was removed and is the real reason its back. Im assuming the heat plate was Dreers idea. Because if Simon designed it he wouldn’t have removed it. If thats the fix then I hope Norton mails every owner one of these plates as a recall. I wish the weather was better here to test this out. My dads red SF that has this plate never once had high idle. So this is really interesting now.

    So it could be the screws
    It could be the lack of the plate
    Could be both related to each other
    Could be heat on IAM
     
  11. BritTwit

    BritTwit

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Indeed.
    My 2013 CR doesn't have the plate, and I have never had the high idle.
     
  12. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

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    Jan 16, 2015
    It is probably a good idea to have the insulator plate on just to reduce some of the heat to the throttle body in general.
     
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  13. richard-7

    richard-7

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    Feb 24, 2014
    I agree.
     
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  14. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    If the throttle body was separated from the cylinder head sufficiently, as to prevent heat transfer, this would surely be the perfect solution...

    For example... by a small supercharger unit...
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
    Clive likes this.
  15. BritTwit

    BritTwit

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Nigel,
    No one can argue with that.
    Makes perfect sense.
     
  16. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Goes to show how sensitive the IAM is though. I don't have the plate, mine was ever so slightly cocked that you really couldn't even see it, yet two turns of one screw cure it. Don't forget, last year my bike bounced....hard. That may have just thrown it off a bit. That little POS is connected to quite a heavy piece of equipment, attached to a too heave hose to the airbox. AND...its the second time it shook loose.
     
  17. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    IMG_3148[1].JPG
    Next Project : Install 1/16 in. thick Heat insulator with built in O-rings . As you see from the drawing this goes between cylinder head and throttle body .
     
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  18. jan nelder

    jan nelder

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    Feb 18, 2018
    good photo...always worth having two types of fuel injection sorted out....!
     
  19. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

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    Jan 5, 2014
    Do you have a fast idle or fueling problem? Just wondering, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
     
  20. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I have idle issues also. But mostly I am doing this because it is a good idea to isolate the throttle body from excessive heat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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