Hunting and High idle permanent fix! - TRIAL

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Its allegedly dangerous as it causes the ECU to learn to be too lean, but as Bill points out why, if its learning and is learning from the O2 sensor output, then surely its an issue with the programming as by definition the learning function would only get into a too lean condition from a faulty sensor or programming error.
 

Eljahara

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Its allegedly dangerous as it causes the ECU to learn to be too lean, but as Bill points out why, if its learning and is learning from the O2 sensor output, then surely its an issue with the programming as by definition the learning function would only get into a too lean condition from a faulty sensor or programming error.
Thanks Komando
I get that, but the comment about it being dangerous was prior to Rob chipping in?
Plus -Richard’s input indicates that the “too lean” issue might be related to different ECU setup as he and his dad both have “clean” properly operating plugs (and bikes.)
Like Bill, I am also suspicious- we all ride a bit differently and the ECU cannot learn that many different maps - re Rob’s comment, I do get that blocking an O2 pipe might just cause a few issues whilst solving a different one. As I say, just trying to understand how a slightly high idle could be the cause of so much disharmony - obviously I am missing something?!
John
 
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Thanks Komando
I get that, but the comment about it being dangerous was prior to Rob chipping in?
Plus -Richard’s input indicates that the “too lean” issue might be related to different ECU setup as he and his dad both have “clean” properly operating plugs (and bikes.)
Like Bill, I am also suspicious- we all ride a bit differently and the ECU cannot learn that many different maps - re Rob’s comment, I do get that blocking an O2 pipe might just cause a few issues whilst solving a different one. As I say, just trying to understand how a slightly high idle could be the cause of so much disharmony - obviously I am missing something?!
John
It's not always slightly high. Sometimes it's 2400. And although manageable, you never know when it pops up. Safer if working properly
 
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Ride your bike in say second or third gear and slow down the throttle but don’t let the rpm go lower than 2000rpm. A couple years back before we knew about the head sensor my bike had times it would go above 2000rpm. The first time I was following a car and was slowing down with it. Except my bike wouldn’t slow down. I was distracted wondering what’s going on for a few seconds before I Had to pull the clutch and hit the brakes hard. More of a scare. If I was in experienced, I likely would have dropped the bike.

Simply, I wasn’t ready for something wierd like that to happen and it was bad timing with how close I was following the car.

It’s dangerous because I could have broke a leg or fingers. Not close to death danger though.

Hope this helps.

I don’t recommend anyone do what im doing to my bike. That said my plugs are perfect, my bike runs perfect and the idle comes down fast and perfect each and every time like it should. Like all other modern bikes do. If there is a software update we need that was missed or a better IAM then I need it because in my opinion the bike is better with the IAM blocked and I cant see myself going back unless there is a real fix for it. I’ll take my chances for catastrophic engine failure. But each time from cold I start the bike I wish there was a fix for this IAM issue so I don’t have to hold the throttle for a minute to get it running.

Ive balanced my engine, i have all the proper upgrades. Ive drilled all the holes in all the right places. My bike passes zero oil to airbox without that air separator. This is the only item to address now. And in the mean time. My IAM will stay blocked.

Once Rob shares the fix, we can all have perfect running machines. Hopefully its just a software update we missed out on.

Thanks for being part of the forum Rob.
 

Eljahara

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Ride your bike in say second or third gear and slow down the throttle but don’t let the rpm go lower than 2000rpm. A couple years back before we knew about the head sensor my bike had times it would go above 2000rpm. The first time I was following a car and was slowing down with it. Except my bike wouldn’t slow down. I was distracted wondering what’s going on for a few seconds before I Had to pull the clutch and hit the brakes hard. More of a scare. If I was in experienced, I likely would have dropped the bike.

Simply, I wasn’t ready for something wierd like that to happen and it was bad timing with how close I was following the car.

It’s dangerous because I could have broke a leg or fingers. Not close to death danger though.

Hope this helps.
Thanks Richard,
In that context then yes - bloody dangerous! I had the same issue with a Honda CBF 600 I had a few years ago, speedo needle and tacho needle just sweeping back and forth, like you I was lucky I was experienced and managed to filter before hitting the back of a van. Honda dealer just accepted that it was a faulty ECU and swapped it out immediately.
I think it is the case of two nation divided by a common language - my understanding of idle was not as you explain
Back in my box!
John
 
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My exit ramp from highway to stop sign is curved and ridiculously short. About 60 feet and sometimes is occupied with a few cars. Ive run up too close to them twice because of the same reason. Expecting to throttle down but having to clutch and brake in a hurry. Yes. Its a distraction as Richard said. And he's right. There should be a remedy. Its more than likely in the ecu. Also, the bike fired up perfectly before the 02 sensor delete but now takes 2 to three tries. Not a big deal because it seems to run a little better and I've increased mpg from 39 to 42 average.
 

Fast Eddie

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I can see the danger too. The 961 has good engine braking characteristics, so that’s how we ‘learn’ to ride them.
So, if suddenly and without warning, that engin braking isn’t there (because the idle is wanting the engine to do over 2k) it is a shock to our system. I very much doubt the distraction it causes is really ‘a few seconds’ as all it takes in a hectic situation is a distraction of a fraction of a second to seriously unnerve you!
 
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I can see the danger too. The 961 has good engine braking characteristics, so that’s how we ‘learn’ to ride them.
So, if suddenly and without warning, that engin braking isn’t there (because the idle is wanting the engine to do over 2k) it is a shock to our system. I very much doubt the distraction it causes is really ‘a few seconds’ as all it takes in a hectic situation is a distraction of a fraction of a second to seriously unnerve you!
You definitely word it better than I do. I couldn’t agree more. Its the rider being used to the characters of the bike like engine braking. And when it changes its a distraction and at the wrong time. An be dangerous.

Im sure Monday Rob and the factory will chime in with a solution. Or at least send out a TSB to all the dealers. I once had a chrysler car that i got a note in the mail direct from chrysler saying don’t drive my car until I scheduled a mechanic to stop by my house and fix a wire in a steering wheel airbag. I called the number and a mechanic came two days later and fixed it in my driveway. Apparently a batch of cars had a wire issue that sets off the airbag while driving and mine was on the list. It must be a law thing when the factory sends letters and mechanics. Probably to avoid a lawsuit.
 
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I've just reread the post from Kommando about the message the O2 sensor puts out. Don't forget, we've deleted that signal by deleting the 02 sensors.
As for the high idle danger....Nigel....you nailed it. Engine brake is what I was going for. Not "idle down".
 
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If you run an SC ECU, there is an updated '.bin' file which needs to be flashed in to the ECU and then have the latest calibration send and idle learn reset. Dealers have had this TSB.
If you run an omex ECU, it's a simple calibration change.

What ECU are people having the most issue with?

Of course, if the throttle stop screw has been adjusted, then the first port of call would be to get them re-calibrated at the manufacturer, which I can facilitate if necessary.

Quite a number of bikes I have seen have proven to be problematic because someone has adjusted that screw!
 
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Hi Rob, would a recalibration also stop the surging on tick over which I get after a hard run, when it cools down after a few minutes tick over is normal. I am running a OMEX 023612/9460/63G01N31 on a 2016 Sport
 
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Hi Rob, would a recalibration also stop the surging on tick over which I get after a hard run, when it cools down after a few minutes tick over is normal. I am running a OMEX 023612/9460/63G01N31 on a 2016 Sport
Do you mean the hunting between 12-1800 rpm? If so, then yes.
 
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If you run an SC ECU, there is an updated '.bin' file which needs to be flashed in to the ECU and then have the latest calibration send and idle learn reset. Dealers have had this TSB.
If you run an omex ECU, it's a simple calibration change.

What ECU are people having the most issue with?

Of course, if the throttle stop screw has been adjusted, then the first port of call would be to get them re-calibrated at the manufacturer, which I can facilitate if necessary.

Quite a number of bikes I have seen have proven to be problematic because someone has adjusted that screw!

Thanks Rob! A wealth of information. In or around Feb or March 2016 Marshall sent me a new BIN that made all sorts of improvements. If you don't mind, when was this BIN released? I'm at a different computer and don't have access to the files to check rev's or numbers.. sorry. I've shared with many people to update to the latest BIN as it made a way better experience. I'm looking forward to hearing back and thank you for the prompt reply. If this is the fix then ....damn... that was easy! And I guarantee not all dealers know about this as I talk to most of them and this has been an on going issue for some time now. Perhaps the person in charge of sending out TSB's forgot to send this one out or this is the TSB and BIN and it doesn't work for all bikes. but def. does make idle better.

As a side note, around 2014 we shared with the factory that the extra hole in the throttle body has a plastic cap that deteriorates and leaks air causing a similar issue. I've shared detailed instruction with my email list to look for this issue which has helped a lot of people maybe this is something that should be shared again with your dealers as a reminder to look for it.
 
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The BIN i have is from October 2016. That mixed with the correct calibration (which are from January 2016) should solve any irratic idle.

If this doesn't solve any idle issue then it's time to look elsewhere - because you can cancel out the ECU at that point, so does it have a vacuum leak? Is the idle air motor working? Are the lambda sensors reading?

The point is, rather than work around the problem - lets find it and fix it, and we can eliminate one thing at a time.

I understand the point on the throttle bodies - since I started here in 2015, we haven't used bodies which have any spigots which require blanking. I'll be sure to make sure our guys know to look for it on the older bikes.
 
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Thanks, Gents.
I'll check the throttle body for a worn runner plug somewhere. My bike is a 2013. I may just send the ECU for recalibration. 2400rpm is unnerving. 1900 is annoying as hell, 1600 is a bit to quick, but I'm a happy camper when she just stays at 1200. Since I'm finally out there having a good time, I'd love to rid her of this last symptom
 
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The BIN i have is from October 2016. That mixed with the correct calibration (which are from January 2016) should solve any irratic idle.

If this doesn't solve any idle issue then it's time to look elsewhere - because you can cancel out the ECU at that point, so does it have a vacuum leak? Is the idle air motor working? Are the lambda sensors reading?

The point is, rather than work around the problem - lets find it and fix it, and we can eliminate one thing at a time.

I understand the point on the throttle bodies - since I started here in 2015, we haven't used bodies which have any spigots which require blanking. I'll be sure to make sure our guys know to look for it on the older bikes.
Thanks Rob. I’ll check the rev I have for BIN.

We had a 2014 SE come in for warranty work and it ended up being the throttle body was leaking because the bolts on one side were loose. Found it doing our usual smoke test. So we never put in a claim for it. Just tightened the bolts for the guy and off he went.
 
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Thanks, Richard. I remember that little tidbit now. I once found my IAM bolts backed out and got a high idle. Seemed to have gone away after tightening it up. I'll check the rubber plug.
 
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Thanks, Richard. I remember that little tidbit now. I once found my IAM bolts backed out and got a high idle. Seemed to have gone away after tightening it up. I'll check the rubber plug.
So, getting back to my last post. Took a 55 mile ride today. Same crap. Terrible throttle response, would hang up over 2k, average of 1800 when hot. Stopped for fuel, restarted, still high. Checked IAM...right screw about 1 1/2 turns loose. Backed them both out, cleaned the faces of the flange, a little Loctite on the screws, put them back in. This took about 3 minutes so the engine is still very hot. Started it up....1200.....rode 3 city miles....1200 at every stop. Got on the highway for 3 miles...got off.....1200 at every stop. Hmmmm…...wish me luck on my next 50+ mile ride. Also, make sure the IAM flanges are perfectly flush and both screws tight. IF that was the source of my problem, I'm a little embarrassed and ecstatic at the same time.
 
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