How Do I tell if I have a Proddy Racer?

Hey All,

So I have lurked here for a while but don't really think I have been a participant at all because, well, it has been 20 years since I actually owned a running norton (1992 - 1973 yellow commando). I have a neat collection of parts that may one day be my personal bike (1972 ex AHRMA racer frame with 74 850 engine cases) but for the moment no actual runner.

Anyway, A couple of years ago my father and I picked up a father son project:





We bought it from the original owner's estate, it is a 1972 Dunstall 810 Mk II with privateer race history (and pics to prove it) . My father owned a dunstall dommie-racer back in 67 that he brought with him when he moved back to the states from switzerland and then gave away to a friend of his in colorado. In the last 10 years the bug for another dunstall bit and when we found this one we had to jump on it. It took us some time to get the paperwork squared away so we had ownership papers but now that we do I figured it was time to get to work.

When we were unpacking the engine from its slumber we noticed that the right side pad on the bottom of the case was stamped "Prod Racer" and next to it "92hp". The case also has some other stampings including "Dunstall 810 MKII". Is it possible that Paul may have built this bike out of a Proddy Racer? As delivered the bike was an unfaired mk II with all the engine goodies, the dunstall dual disc forks, rearsets, 2 into 1 into 2 pipe with decebel silencers, and the yellow paint you see it in. It was delivered with a smooth top clamp but that was changed for a handlebar top clamp by the first owner (I have both). the neck tag is stamped Dunstall 810 MK II as well and does not look to have ever been off the frame. The frame has been drilled and gussetted. Is there a chance this may be a production racer that paul converted into one of his bikes? Dunstalls were not being officially imported until 73, the first owner of this bike imported the bike in the spring of 1972.

so what do you guys think?

Never seen a Proddy Racer that had "Prod Racer" stamped on it. In fact Proddy Racers weren't marked at all, and the only way to prove it is a genuine one is to look up the (normal) engine number in the despatch records. Sounds like an amateurish fake to me.

Proddy Racers were always 750s by the way.

Suggest you send the engine number VMCC or NOC to have the factory records checked. Records should show if it is a PR and if it was originally shipped to Dunstall. As I recall '71 was the last year of PR builds. Stamps on the engine ID with Dunstall and PR are likely done by a previous owner. Non original is a function of time for normal Commandos. For race bikes it's worse case.

The Norvil list (not renowned for its accuracy) states the last PR was serial 145183

http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/

145183 1971 750 Production Racer Last production racer produced in June 1971

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You have a Dunstall. :mrgreen:

yeah, I didn't think I had much chance of it being a proddy racer but it never hurts to ask. never seen stampings like this so......, but it didn't have any proddy racer tells.

Like I said, bike was a race bike so who knows.

"Proddy racers were always 750s", -customer bikes ok -, but did the factory team run an 850 for the`74 I.o.M. production TT?

Thanks to Ray Davey for this picture of Ray Pickrell. Ray believes it shows him rounding Quarter Bridge in the 1970 Production TT on a Dunstall Norton Commando.

http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/r ... l-in-1970/

Now , back then , Dunstall was raceing Commandos before ' the Works ' , and Inchleys ' race shop ' at Thruxton . Haveing made of with several Van Loads of Factory Race Twin componentry . In fact , he bought the lot.For 2d .

Haveing started early ,


& 1963


Dunstall was registered as a ' Manufacturer ' ( as was Egli ) so as to get components homolagated , for ' inclusion ' in ' production ' specification . Such as the Monterly ' Record Breaking ' machine .

there wasn’t another production motorcycle capable of going that fast until the 1973 Kawasaki Z1 topped out at 120 at the end of a ½-mile test run—with (the testers figured) another 5 or 6 mph in it. (Unless you count the ’67 Dunstall Norton 750, which reached 126 mph but can’t really be considered “production.”)



(at Least in America ?? )Then again , someone has something to say on it , here .http://vintagemotorcyclesonline.com/fea ... ii?start=1





DOWNLOAD 12969 Dunstall Catalouge , C/O Matchy Jampot . http://archives.jampot.dk/general/Dunst ... e_1969.pdf

So , essential , DUNSTALL was the ENTRANT , and the " Manufacturer " ( or , at least , Supplier . Shades og G.M. 'not raceing ' ) .









SO , to ANSWER THE QUESTION .

Yes , It Would Appear So .

However, Cycle did test a showroom stock 500 back in`69 that was...
"quite capable of a sustained 125mph" http://kawtriple.com/mraxl/reviews/69h1pg7.htm

A Quick Polish , aAnd . . .

Here's some specs on Dunstalls

http://vintagemotorcyclesonline.com/fea ... ii?start=1
http://www.woodgate.org/dunstall/history.html

1969 750cc Dunstall Norton - The 144mph Drainpipe

Paul Dunstall was Britain's leading tunder of Norton twins in the Sixties and early Seventies. The enterprising South-East Londoner bought left-over parts from Norton's Domiracer project when the Birmingham factory closed in 1963, and used them as the basis for onward development. Bright red Dunstall Domiracers were highly effective on the track and the 130mph Dunstall Atlas roadster was the fastest motorcycle on the market.

In 1967 750cc Dunstall rider Rex Butcher collected a bunch of world records at Monza in Italy, including one hour at 126.7mph. In 1968, Dunstall rider RayPickrell won many short curcuit races on a Domiracer, as well as winning the Isle of Mann 750cc Production TT on a Dunstall Atlas.

The ultimate Dunstall Norton racer was built for 1969, featuring a new frame to cope with the 70-plus horsepower that the team was wringing from Norton's 750cc Atlas engine. Designed by Eddie Robinson, who also worked for the Seeley equipe, the open-bottomed oil-carrying structure has a spine of large-diameter tubes that earned it the drainpipe nickname.

Experimental pannier fuel tanks inside the fairiing on this machine are intended to lower its centre of gravity and improve handling. However, no fuel pump was fitted and starvation problems saw the Dunstall team revert to a normal tank for most events.

During 1969, Pickrell rode Dunstall machines to gain two speed records. One, thought to have been set on this machine, was a new national record for the 750cc flying-start quarter mile at 144.69mph established at Elvington, Yorkshire. The other, set on another Dunstall team visit to Monza, was a world 750cc record for 10 Kilometres covered at 131.51mph, which stood for seven years.






Engine - 745cc (73 x 89mm) are-cooled overhead valve parallel twin, 10.25:1 compression ratio, two 32mm Amal carburettors, Lucas magneto ignition
Transmission - Chain primary drive, dry multiplate clutch, five-speed gearbox, chain final drive
Chassis - Tubular spine frame, telescopic fork front suspension, swinging arm rear suspension, drum brakes
Wheels - 18in
Power - 72bhp @ 7000rpm
Top Speed - 145mph



Dunstall Motorcycles
Model Range

http://www.woodgate.org/dunstall/models.html

Though Id say they stamped Prod. R. on the motor ( if they did ) so it didnt end up in the wrong bike. The Workshop being rather pressed , as far as Norton Engines went. About then . Perhaps .

O.K. YOUR TURN .

A few pics in & out , of the Cases , please / AND inside the head . As In , The Combustion Chambers , if you would , old chap . Then theres the Camshaft . Followers , and ' one or two ' other things . If you would .

after all that , it LOOKS like a DUNSTALL . ( exhaust etc . )A ' Dunstall Head , is full hemishpereical , like a P.R. and likely 1 5/8 intke valve Dia. Squish band in head says its not reangled valve / Hemi Chamber ( full dia. of bore ) type .

Searching Dunstall , on the forum here will get you a few afficianados on the road bikes .And Details .

A Vincent Black Lightning, which was a catalogued model (does that make it "production" ?) was capable of 150+ mph. Not available new in the 1970s though.

Is it just me, or is Matt swamping us with Dunstall info - everything except the kitchen sink. ?

Matt Spencer said:

O.K. YOUR TURN .

A few pics in & out , of the Cases , please / AND inside the head . As In , The Combustion Chambers , if you would , old chap . Then theres the Camshaft . Followers , and ' one or two ' other things . If you would .

after all that , it LOOKS like a DUNSTALL . ( exhaust etc . )A ' Dunstall Head , is full hemishpereical , like a P.R. and likely 1 5/8 intke valve Dia. Squish band in head says its not reangled valve / Hemi Chamber ( full dia. of bore ) type .

Searching Dunstall , on the forum here will get you a few afficianados on the road bikes .And Details .

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The engine is assembled, and was freshly assembled when I bought the bike. A quick peek with a borescope showed MTC pistons in the thing so - someone has been inside. There is also some heavy port reshaping in the intake tracks that looks quite old (but is epoxy and not lead). I'll snap some pics of the stampings and if you want I have some fresh out of the mumified storage container engine shots I can post up:








my friend uch said the breather may not be correct for a dunstall, but he is getting senile these days (just kidding uch).

any other pics of the drainpipe? every christmas I see the bare drainpipe frame and that parking lot pic is the only one I have ever seen of the bike assembled :wink:

Stock 72 breather. I don't think those are 850 cases. Dunstall barrel on a Combat motor, if I was to guess.

well the dunstall is a 72 bike.


I think what may be tripping people up is that I mentioned two projects in the intial post:

- My "Father & Son" project with my dad is the numbers matching dunstall I have posted pictures of and asked if it could have been built from proddy racer parts or a proddy racer donor bike. This is the bike I have pics of and paperwork on and posted the neck tag off of in another thread.

- My personal and continiously uphill rolling stone is a 1972 ex vintage race frame I bought at mid ohio for $40, a set of 1974 850 cases, a swingarm that came from the basement at 6th street's shop, an trans cradle from Big D cycles in dallas, and various forks and other bits and bobs I have collected over the past 2 years. I am not asking any questions about this bike and not posting any pics.

I also have the 650 SS motor that you see in the dunstall in boxes pics. no idea what to do with that.

Geeto 67 said:

well it is a 72 bike.

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Then there you go. :mrgreen:

The barrels look really good, and a bit short. I believe the production racer used 82 mm stroke instead of 89mm. Easy to check !

they are also aluminum.