Help me I'm blind-head bolts

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Marcb said:
Thanks for all your help guys. Have all sockets but no wrenches. Will order asap. No wonder the front and back of the cylinders were leaking oil. Reminds me of my days of working on airplanes. Run the engine and tighten until the leaks stop. Sometimes we had to make the tools. Really there is not much difference between the two except one goes faster.
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There are other reasons for oil leaks from an engine besides a leaky head gasket. Explore them before reassembly. Some may disagree, but
I recommend using a new flame ring composite head gasket rather than the OEM copper gasket, taking care to seal around the pushrod
tunnels and oil way. You don't have to learn the hard way. All of this has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

Oh! And somehow I have managed for 20 years of Norton ownership to remove and replace the head and barrels owning only a set of
Whitworth sockets and one 1/4" Whitworth open/box ends wrench. I did have to grind down the outer diameter of the box end of the
wrench a bit to get it to fit onto the rear head nut.
 
when you buy the flame ring head gasket also replace the #7 & #8 sleeve nuts with the better MK3 version. It is much easier to fit a wrench on the latest ones.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I guess it depends which manual you have. I just checked mine and the factory version is rather vague, as yours probably is. The (often criticised) Haynes manual however is very clear, showing a page from the parts book highlighting the 3 studs and calling it out in the text.

I have two manuals and the parts book in the shed, and cross referencing them generally covers the basics. I would always recommend anyone doing own maintenance had at least these on the self.

There‘s also an excellent Norton restoration manual recently written by Norman White that all Norton owners should add to their library.

The Mick Hemmings DVDs mentioned by a previous poster really are fabulous, but as far as I know, you have to join the club to purchase these (which seems a bit long winded in these instant digital days) !
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Re. The Hemmings DVDs, when I talked to him while placing an order for his phenolic layshaft ball bearing and rear iso vernier, I mentioned I had his gearbox video on order from INOA club and he said I could have ordered direct from him.
 
This tool is very handy for those sleeve nuts from under the cylinders. I found it a couple of decades ago on eBay for $5. Seller had no idea what it was.
Help me I'm blind-head bolts
 
Tornado said:
Re. The Hemmings DVDs, when I talked to him while placing an order for his phenolic layshaft ball bearing and rear iso vernier, I mentioned I had his gearbox video on order from INOA club and he said I could have ordered direct from him.
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I never knew that !
 
06-3192
starts in 73
and in keeping with norton, all new MFG/design was UN therefore 7/16" hex ...the other end was not to change.
 
Did the factory use a torque wrench for the head/cylinders? Seems way too high tech for Norton! :)

I suspect it was by feel...
 
I reckon they over torqued them.

Bikes that left the factory didn’t enjoy the ridiculous re torquing of around 5 times in 500 miles that we seem to do today in order to avoid blown gaskets. Over torquing really reduces this. So I reckon that’s what they musta done.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I reckon they over torqued them.

Bikes that left the factory didn’t enjoy the ridiculous re torquing of around 5 times in 500 miles that we seem to do today in order to avoid blown gaskets. Over torquing really reduces this. So I reckon that’s what they musta done.
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My new ‘72 combat back then blew the head gasket after 500 miles. The dealer replaced it at no charge.
 
illf8ed said:
My new ‘72 combat back then blew the head gasket after 500 miles. The dealer replaced it at no charge.
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Wasn’t the first service at 500 miles? If so praps it wasn’t torqued up correctly at the service?

I know that when I used a composite gasket I was staggered just how much it kept tightening, I honestly thought some threads were stripped! I’m certain it would not have lasted 500 miles without anal re-torquing.

Last time I used a composite I over torqued by 5lbs on the initial build (a tip from an ‘ole boy) and it didn’t require any where near as much pampering.

I’m using copper now tho.
 
As someone who just pulled the rear head stud out of his FullAuto head at a lot less than the required torque, you might
want to send the head out for the stud repair and whilst you are at it do the exhaust ports as well.
You know the old story: do it now or do it later, now costs the same and is a lot more convenient.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Wasn’t the first service at 500 miles? If so praps it wasn’t torqued up correctly at the service?

I know that when I used a composite gasket I was staggered just how much it kept tightening, I honestly thought some threads were stripped! I’m certain it would not have lasted 500 miles without anal re-torquing.

Last time I used a composite I over torqued by 5lbs on the initial build (a tip from an ‘ole boy) and it didn’t require any where near as much pampering.

I’m using copper now tho.
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I think it blew just before the service. I don’t believe there were any flame ring gaskets in those days, it had a copper gasket. Almost 50 years ago.
 
Marcb said:
I blew a head gasket and am ready to take out the head bolts but can only find 7. One on each side of the plugs and three in the front. Where are the other three? By reading the chart I can't find number two,four and five. Where are they?
Thanks
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Help me I'm blind-head bolts
 
illf8ed said:
I think it blew just before the service. I don’t believe there were any flame ring gaskets in those days, it had a copper gasket. Almost 50 years ago.
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My bad, I shudda been clearer, the over torquing tip was only in reference to composite gaskets. I wouldn’t do it on copper and I wouldn’t imagine Norton did either.
 
You can retorque the composite head gasket cold over a week.
It took over a week for the base gasket and four cap screw fasteners to settle before I installed the cylinder head.
That would apply when a base gasket is not used.

Its not like most folk are prepping for Daytona in the morning.

I used a RGM copper head gasket that needed around 20 minutes of prep (before fitting/torqueing on all fasteners and has been retorqued cold since then twice)
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Good question. I believe later bikes were composite and early bikes copper. Dunno when things changed.
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The early HG were composite, but without flame ring.
The metal wires in the gasket could begin to glow and burn a pinhole through the gasket.
If you kept riding a little longer, it would also burn a nice groove into the headface.
DAMHIK ..
 
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When I did the first rebuild on my 74 8 years ago I went with copper. They cost the same and I find, so far, they
are quite reusable. A thin layer of Wellseal and silk thread around the pushrod holes. The silk thread left a clear
indentation in the copper! Yes I did get some minor weepage however that may or may not be related to the pulled
stud.
Jim Comstock did post saying he "mentioned" the problem of pulled studs to Mr Fullauto when they were working on the project but I guess it was a money bridge he didn't choose to cross. Remember Jim had his exhaust port thread fail. My FA exhaust threads were torqued as per Ludwig's suggestion and no problem and look good. None the less, the head is now out for stud
inserts and exhaust port bushing.
The alloy used in the FA head is actually rather soft. Look at the area beneath the head bolt washers and how it sinks and compacts.
 
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