Help ID year of ES2

Rohan · Dec 11, 2015

Be aware Mr Bacon has written a few...

What is said to be quite an authentic 1956 ES2

Note that the front hub - prior to the full width alloy one - was full width half iron and half alloy !
Note also the fully chromed tank, with badges and kneepads bolted on. (are bolt on kneepads correct ?).
And that muffler, and earlier laydown gearbox.

All quite different to the 57 spec.
Bit different too to niggys superb 55.

mark99 · Dec 11, 2015

Thanks for the photo, I found that in searching around, he does say not original exhaust
http://www.britcycle.com/bikes/forsale/ ... or_ES2.htm

there are quite a few differences from that to mine,
The front hub on mine has some crown and that looks flat,
The transmission is different, the access cover on mine is round not oval
On the photo you posted of the 56 the push rod covers are exposed beside the head
Hard to say any thing about the tank

What is also interesting, on ebay I found a poster advertised for '57, 58 & 59' I guess the implication is that they are the same
It is only an illustration, but
The head/push rods, transmission, hubs look like mine, but it has the small oil tank

I guess I will be OK with late 56 / 57 transition...

texasSlick · Dec 11, 2015

I have been under the impression that the small oil tank was consistent with the Featherbed frame. It certainly seems to be shaped precisely for tucking in under the frame loop.

Perhaps those threaded holes in the small oil tank inside panel (see just-curious-holes-atlas-dommie-oil-tank-t18243.html?hilit=curious) have something to do with the ES2.

Comments?

Slick

Rohan · Dec 11, 2015

mark99 said:
Thanks for the photo, I found that in searching around, he does say not original exhaust

That muffler is correct for a 1956.
I have the brochure, and its shown in there.

And (tank should be chromed though)

mark99 said:
What is also interesting, on ebay I found a poster advertised for '57, 58 & 59'

The 1959 had a featherbed frame, so was mostly quite different.

Its surprising how little good info is out there on these.

Rohan · Dec 13, 2015

mark99 said:
I wrote to Andover looking for parts and they said:

"The build numbers for Nortons are:
1956 New Year frame number commenced with 666000
1957 commenced 713600

Just to add to this, and fully correct Andover's mis-information, those numbers both have have an extra zero tacked on the end !!
(or an extra number in each of them somewhere).

The little Bruce Main Smith booklet numbers appendix says 1957 numbers ranged from 70095 to 75050.
This would be the Sept to Aug Norton MANUFACTURING year.
Andover really should know that, if they are quoting stuff to customers...

Also, Nortons generally had also a year letter and model number stamped on the crankcases and frame.
On a 1957 ES2 you would expect to see an M4.
A 1956 model would have an L4.
(A 4 was an ES2 model).
These weren't always applied, but you see them on most bikes.

possm · Dec 13, 2015

Hi Mark I have a 1957 ES2 that I plan to start restoring next year it is just over 70 serial numbers after yours-

apart from the front guard it is reasonably original, even though they look similar the 57-58 ES2/M50's are quite different to the earlier swingarm ES2, the frame is different, the rear guard is narrower as is the centre stand to name a few of the differences.
Al

Rohan · Dec 14, 2015

Do you have an M4 code on the cases or frame ?

possm · Dec 14, 2015

Yes M4 on crankcase.

johnm · Dec 15, 2015

Rohan said:
mark99 said:

Thanks for the photo, I found that in searching around, he does say not original exhaust

Click to expand...

That muffler is correct for a 1956.
I have the brochure, and its shown in there.

And (tank should be chromed though)

mark99 said:

What is also interesting, on ebay I found a poster advertised for '57, 58 & 59'

Click to expand...

The 1959 had a featherbed frame, so was mostly quite different.

Its surprising how little good info is out there on these.

You know the only issue with a featherbed is that the tank doesn't look quite as nice in my opinion. The saddle tanks look a bit more integrated I think. Having said that a featherbed frame is a wonder to ride.

Rohan · Dec 15, 2015

johnm said:
You know the only issue with a featherbed is that the tank doesn't look quite as nice in my opinion. The saddle tanks look a bit more integrated I think.

They do look better from some angles than others....
I'd comment that the manx style (bigger) tank looks like it was designed for it,
and all the roadgoing tanks look like a bit of an afterthought - what can we put there.

But we diverge....

ashman · Dec 22, 2015

I don't care what others say but I love the shape of my Wideline Featherbed tank, it has some beautyfull folds in it, sits great on the frame (I don't bolt my tank down) but the only problem with my tank it has so much body filler under the paint, it has done me well in the 35 years
I have owned it, has survived the big fire of 81 (thats why I don't bolt my tank down).

Ashley

Rohan · Dec 22, 2015

Thats an automatic fail for an MoT.

Perhaps you should follow Peter Williams example, and not bolt your seat down too...
(he crashed).

The paint scheme on the tank definitely changes the look of the tank/lines.
Some schemes look better than others.

The deeper tank of the OP's ES2 here looks good.
(Obviously its pre featherbed.)

ILLF8ED · Dec 23, 2015

Rohan said:
johnm said:

When did it go to featherbed frame? (The bike in your photo does not have a featherbed frame)
Must have been very late?
Looks like a very nice bike. Very uncommon down in NZ.

Click to expand...

The ES2 went featherbed for 1959.
They were still wideline for the 1961 model even.

ES2's didn't sell many once the featherbed twins came along, if you read the history books.
Folks who own these swingarm ES2's say they are the best singles Nortons made.
The widelines aren't as comfortable to sit on, and the featherbed handling at high speeds doesn't really come into it.
The slimline ES2s are fairly uncommon too, folks spent the little bit extra and bought the dommies.

Actually the '61 ES2 is a slimline featherbed. This was the result of mine after restored.

ntst8 · Dec 23, 2015

Nice job on the slimline David, i have never seem one in the flesh. I'm guessin you know someone stole your sidestand.

Mine is a year older so a wideline, not so shiny and not all to factory finish but it does do a few miles.

ashman · Dec 23, 2015

Rohan said:
Thats an automatic fail for an MoT.

Perhaps you should follow Peter Williams example, and not bolt your seat down too...
(he crashed).

Well not having my tank bolted down at the time saved my bike when it caught fire (while I was on it at the time) and running, when the flames started to lick up my arms, lucky I had my leather jacket on, I dropped the bike, then the panic set in, but once the fuel lines melted I was able to kick the fuel tank away from the bike and the fire suffercated with a big canvas tarp, was back on the road a week later had to wait for the seat to be restored, lession learned from this experance, never run vilosity stacks without air filters and make sure the fuel taps aren't leaking (back fire through carbies when kicking it) in 35 years the tank has never lifted even going down a few times.

Ashley

Triton Thrasher · Dec 24, 2015

Air filters can go on fire too!

But you're right about petrol leaks being dangerous.

I keep the tank down on mine with a strap. Wideline Nortons don't get MoT tests these days.

mark99 · Dec 26, 2015

I don't see a M4 or L4 on the engine, I will have to take it out of the garage to get a look at the frame
On the engine, there is the 71032 with a 9 directly under
behind the 71032 is what looks like 82/113

Any suggestions on how to remove the gas cap? it goes around and pops up but doesn't come off
It is a twist type, with a stylized N on it

Rohan · Dec 26, 2015

mark99 said:
I don't see a M4 or L4 on the engine, I will have to take it out of the garage to get a look at the frame
On the engine, there is the 71032 with a 9 directly under
behind the 71032 is what looks like 82/113

That 9 actualy indicates its a Model 19S - a swingarm spring frame (ie not a featherbed).
The 600cc single, with 82 bore and 113 mm long stroke - a real long stroke !
71032 is into 1957 according to my little booklets list of number.

http://motorcycles-for-sale.biz/img/mot ... 360189.jpg
Previous comments about sorting out 1956 from 1957 models still apply.

mark99 said:
Any suggestions on how to remove the gas cap? it goes around and pops up but doesn't come off
It is a twist type, with a stylized N on it

Its the twist and lift style of cap.
Sometimes the lift bit can be very tight.
You also need to get it into the right spot where it will lift up clear.
Try twisting it a shade further than it wants to go and then lifting.
The other end of the twist function locks it down tight, more or less.
The unlock function is always anticlockwise.
If you squeeze too tight, it might be deformed and extremely difficult to lift up....

ILLF8ED · Dec 27, 2015

I rebuilt a '57 model 50 in '85. It was 73530 to give some range of VINs for that year. One of the local club members has a '57 model 19 600cc.

mark99 · Dec 27, 2015

does anyone out there have a loose chrome tank side panel that they could trace and make a few measurements?
I might look into having someone make a set if I can't find some to purchase

Help ID year of ES2

Rohan

mark99

texasSlick

Rohan

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possm

Rohan

possm

johnm

Rohan

ashman

Rohan

ILLF8ED

ntst8

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