Gus Kuhn Seeley Commando

Been around enough hobot and seen it enough to say far more often than not,..it is the rider, not the equipment.

Ok ok I agree I don't count as a pilot so its all bike character for me.

NORTON 850 COMMANDO MK3 GUS KUHN MOTORCYCLE PRINT (16.5" X 11.6") BIKE POSTER
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTON-850-COMM ... 43c3bcd0cd

Dances, you don't get to be a good rider by riding a bad bike. My 500cc short stroke Triton taught me how to stay alive. The Seeley 850 taught me how good and confidence inspiring a bike can be when it is set up right. It is a real weapon. I have a strange outlook on life, I actually envy those fighter pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain. Unfortunately the GCRs don't allow machine guns to be fitted to road race bikes. Sorry - don't laugh, it is just the way I am - stupid ! I actually take care not to deck the opposition, however you get the picture.

acotrel said:

Dances, you don't get to be a good rider by riding a bad bike.

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Other than you, nobody else is talking about a bad bike. Plenty of instance where I would be passed by a bike/rider with 20hp less than my ride but a very good rider. Both bikes are very good.

I'm with Al in that 'bad' bike teaches nothing but holding back and fighting for control. Peel was more than 20 hp off the bikes she smoked when any leaning and steering involved and the more of it required the more fun she was ahead of the lesser handling things. Race classes divided up by cycle performance not pilot skills though of course better pilot can take any bike around better but only so much better before bike itself limits what a wise pilot can get away with. The reasons pilots could shine on Gus Kuhn's Cream of the Crop was his motorycles were better that the rest at the time. Another perfect example of it being mainly all about the bikes is none of us would have much to do with each other if not for the special wonderful features and basic perfomrance of Commando's over run of of the mill uglier craft - even if better performance in some conditions. I have mental defect that some others do too, can't stand someone in front of me when in a hurry and love it when they think my getting ahead of them has much to do with me, instead of being out classed by the machine - so fact of the matter was me just a simpleton letting it do its own thing for me. I have never ridden anything that could satisfy this immature childish manhood competition drive and G sense addiction than a slightly modified and lightened Combat.

Pensiveness is finishing a test last as well as finishing it first, similar to 1st seeing all brakes lighting up just as I'm testing traction accelerating into the turn by leaning a bit this way and that till skips so no surprise definite grip/slip calibration of tire traction - in that time condition - then let her rip while dodging the still slowing parking lot cones giving wide room not to scare/press them into mistakes as so un neck and neck you feel so scared for them till ahead of enough they are on their own and not tempted to follow Peel's lines around and out. I of course am flashing back to the wrist pull of ski rope snapping the whip that can double speed in a turn, especially at the magic apex part. All in all I'm sticking with basic factory frame as plenty enough tri-linked and more useable cargo and travel set up. More mass in frame does help isolate sooner if that matters to a numb racer.

Dances with Shrapnel said:

acotrel said:

Dances, you don't get to be a good rider by riding a bad bike.

Click to expand...

Other than you, nobody else is talking about a bad bike. Plenty of instance where I would be passed by a bike/rider with 20hp less than my ride but a very good rider. Both bikes are very good.

Click to expand...

Dances , when you get blitzed the other rider always looks good. I suggest that often it is the way the bike is set up and the way the power is delivered. A strong top end motor tends to limit how much you can have the bike tighten it's line in corners without the bike stepping out too easily, so you get on the power later and the other guy has the run on you. We had a very good example years ago when Ken Blake was riding the 730cc Jesser Triumph . The bike always ran a methanol/nitro blend, and was set up to handle superbly. I once asked Blake why he was so successful with it, and he said it was just the way the bike was set up - you could do anything with it. Until then I had never seen a Triton approaching corners with the rear end stepping out.
You can have all the theories about getting more power from your engine, however if the bike becomes nasty, it will probably limit your riding style and back you off especially around corners. It is great to have loads of power but if it forces your technique becomes 'point and squirt', you are at a disadvantage.
What we need is a knob on the handlebars which adjusts the trail, and the way the bike tightens its line in corners. Perhaps we could gear it to the power readout and the autopilot ?

acotrel, I get what you are saying but somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand. Yes, it goes without saying the a real peiece of trash street bike with hard rubber and no fork oil will have a hard time competeing with a track ready and reasonably prepared, tuned and powered race bike will make it a challeneg but I have seen some riders in my life and I have seen some rides in my life and can tell you that unless you talking about a pro versus pro level of riding, bike preparation is secondary to rider.

Equal bikes with different riders and the better rider will prevail all the time. We are not talking pro league here but a broad mix of rider skills and expereinces.

As an example: safe to assume you are not at pro level and you and hobot have a go at it. He uses his beloved Ms. Peel with a universe of power at the rear wheel and you on your wellprepared torquey Norton Seeley.

With a three lap sprint race, the outcome is hobot crashes and you win

Switch bikes and another three lap race, the outcome is hobot crashes and you win.

It really is the rider for most all of us mortals.

Sorry hobot; could not help myself here.

Take two pro riders and the same two bikes and the winning outcome follows the better prepared bike. The assumption here is that your bike is reasonably well prepared with race compound and Ms. Peel is on street compounds and has not been set up and sorted out for a road course.

I never knew how well a bike could handle until I fitted the TZ350 fork yokes to the Seeley. For years I tolerated a peaky and nasty 500cc Triton, on which if I really lowered the gearing I could really blitz the fast guys around corners, then lose races at the ends of the straights even though it had 18 inch wheels and so tended to run wide coming out of corners. It was exhausting to ride fast. The Seeley tightens it's lines coming out of corners so I get on the power much earlier, and the 850 motor is not nasty enough to cause a step-out even if gassed really hard. The bike is extremely quick steering and the brakes are one finger, both of which really suit me. I now find that I ride with much more confidence. The difference is that the bike actually helps me to go faster. I suggest there is a balance to be maintained between the effects of decreased trail and the way the power is delivered. I would not like to ride my Seeley if it was fitted with separate pipes and megaphones. As the line tightened in corners and it came on power it would probably deliver a big scare. I suggest that torque characteristics and the way the bike is geared have a big effect on what happens during a race with different steering set-ups.

Dances, Hobot is a good guy, he is always thinking and at least he tries to go fast, not like some others. For all of us, life is a learning experience. I had a very bad apprenticeship with motorcycles.