from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got their

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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

I actually own a 961 and up and til I put it away last week, have used it constantly. I also own a 130hp Hinckley triple Explorer XC. I love both bikes but they are chalk and cheese in both design and customer philosophy, in my opinion.

I think comparing Norton to Triumph is unfair as they are so different. My Triumph was a 'head' purchase. I had a GSA1200 which I commute to London on but actively disliked, due to its unbelievable height and weight, rubbish engine and the fact that most of the other GSA riders I met were trying to be Charlie Boorman, but on the M11, complete with metal luggage, heated toilet seat, hairdryer and road tyres. Then I saw a TEX 1200 in a gorgeous satin green come past me like I was standing still, with a howling triple motor. I searched on line, found one, traded the GSA in and have been smiling on the commute ever since.

The Norton was a 'Heart' purchase. Expensive Sunday morning toy, more Italian exotica than anything else. Im aware that its more expensive than a lot of its competition but I wouldn't change it for anything. Its addictive. Its beautiful. I cant think of a motorcycle that looks better. Obviously that is a completely subjective view but so is motorcycling. If we all liked the same thing we would all be riding Hondas.

Its not particularly quick, 80hp,but it handles like a dream and theres loads of torque where I need it, 30-80 mph. Anybody that's comparing HP with a 160hp Triumph is completely missing the point of the Norton. Its a gorgeous piece of engineering and I love riding it. If I wanted a 160hp Triumph I would have bought one and been the same as all the other clone bikes out there that look exactly the same until you get 10 feet away. However you wont mistake a 961 for a modern Jap/Triumph. Nothing else looks or sounds like a 961. Its also exclusive. Ive seen 2 others on the road in a year and a half.

Ive never had people stop me on my TEX to ask about it or tell me how gorgeous it is, which happens on the 961 constantly.
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

I agree with most of the above except the Triumph Triple is not a clone Japanese bike. And, subjective I know, but nothing sounds remotely like the Triple, other than perhaps a Maserati V12.
When combined with the terrific acceleration between 8 k and 11500k rpm (Daytona), it is quite an experience.

I have heard the 961 up close and as far as exhaust notes go, it was not particularly inspiring, much like a Ducati twin, same crank angle I guess. Just didn't do it for me, I prefer the bark of an old time 360 crank Norton.

But I do understand the allure of the 961 and might purchase one yet. For me it will hinge on seeing good dealer support in North America and also bikes attaining higher mileages with reliability.


Glen
 

Fast Eddie

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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

worntorn said:
I agree with most of the above except the Triumph Triple is not a clone Japanese bike. And, subjective I know, but nothing sounds like remotely the Triple, other than perhaps a Maserati V12.
When combined with the terrific acceleration between 8 k and 11500k rpm (Daytona), it is quite an experience.

I have heard the 961 up close and as far as exhaust notes go, it was not particularly inspiring, much like a Ducati twin, same crank angle I guess. Just didn't do it for me, I prefer the bark of an old time 360 crank Norton.

But I do understand the allure of the 961 and might purchase one yet. For me it will hinge on seeing good dealer support in North America and also bikes attaining higher mileages with reliability.


Glen
I agree strongly with the sound comment. I wish Norton would make a 360 degree, even if only as an alternative / option.
 

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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

The 961 is what it isn't , it's a bike designed in America cobbled together and assembled in former office building in a stately home occupied by the Norton CEO . Not quite the Triumph route, but despite the turnover of staff bikes are being built and finding their way to ever eager riders.
However if you read the press reports and interviews on Nortons own website there does not seem to be any coherent plan to take the company forward unless it receives a massive cash injection and personnel with the relevant qualification to properly understand the difficulties in basic manufacturing and customer service techniques .
Until then the 961 will get loads of attention when they are out and about rather like the crowds that flocked to see ,the bearded lady or elephant man.
I loved my T309 it also had loads of attention twenty years ago , mostly old men telling me it wasn't a REAL Triumph. They evolved ,improved and are giving the customer a great product at a cost of 100 million of JBs money.
If Norton can do the start up with two balloons and a whistle then they will have done better than Triumph.
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

I agree with most of the above except the Triumph Triple is not a clone Japanese bike. And, subjective I know, but nothing sounds remotely like the Triple, other than perhaps a Maserati V12.
When combined with the terrific acceleration between 8 k and 11500k rpm (Daytona), it is quite an experience.

I have heard the 961 up close and as far as exhaust notes go, it was not particularly inspiring, much like a Ducati twin, same crank angle I guess. Just didn't do it for me, I prefer the bark of an old time 360 crank Norton.

But I do understand the allure of the 961 and might purchase one yet. For me it will hinge on seeing good dealer support in North America and also bikes attaining higher mileages with reliability.


My apologies, the Triumph triple is definitely a one off.... it has to be one of the best powerplants ever made. However, there is a certain 'style' to modern bikes, including Triumph and the Japanese brands. My neighbour bought a 2 year old Z1000 recently, a bike Im not familiar with. At a distance it looks very like the Triumph it was parked next to in the car park! My daughter says all bikes look like part of the Transformers movie now and I think shes got a point....
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Well I DID get to ride a new Ducati 1200S all around the twisties today and I must say, that bike practically read my mind when entering a nice curve, The horsepower and acceleration are exceptional. The front end slightly skittish, but stable enough. That said, I'm more comfortable on the Norton and it handles comparable. Most of you know, I'm having serious problems with customer service, but that still doesn't detract from how cool that bike is to ride.
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Dozer said:


My apologies, the Triumph triple is definitely a one off.... it has to be one of the best powerplants ever made. However, there is a certain 'style' to modern bikes, including Triumph and the Japanese brands. My neighbour bought a 2 year old Z1000 recently, a bike Im not familiar with. At a distance it looks very like the Triumph it was parked next to in the car park! My daughter says all bikes look like part of the Transformers movie now and I think shes got a point....


Your daughter is correct with regard to the current crop of Triumphs, however the Daytona955s from a few years back do look different than the UJMs. Enough different that some reviewers complained they don't look "modern"/or"sharp". I guess not with all the round edges. The earlier T595 series Dayton as were even curvier, they look great but it was difficult to find one with low miles. The other factor is that with the new body shape (after 02 ) they came with 20 more HP and weighed 20 pounds less than the older bikes. Maybe not as unique looking as a 961, but with Triumph's unusual frame, the one sided swing arm, and curvy bodywork, they are quite different looking than the Japanese sporties
Here is my 05

 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Now I can recognise the slightly older 'curvy' Triumphs straight away. But the new 'sharp' ones all look very similar to UJMs IMO.
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

auldblue said:
1996, T309 Brno went like a pit bull , not the fastest(but faster than a 961) John Bloor spent money on hiring the Meriden designers to develop Triumph not money on a stately home.


Meaty, Beaty Big and Bouncy. Best motorcycle I've ever owned....".......maybe
Still got the throw overs .
My local Triumph Dealer is selling one exactly like this on consignment right now. I was just looking at it a couple days ago.
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

NOBODY in the states got a demo when the initial orders were taken. and no demo’s were ever available when the first several batches arrived at south bay norton triumph in california. kind of hard to demo a bike when there are none to ride.. maybe different across the pond thou....
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Just a quick comment on what Auldblue had to say about Norton start up,with two balloons and a whistle,you forgot the head designer bloke,ex triumph in charge of design for grab handles on the 675 !!!
So really should read,two balloons,a whistle and a chocolate fire guard ?
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

nickguzzi said:
As neither company has any links with the past other than the names they bought, what is the point... ?

Triumph is doing well because it has sufficient capital to develop designs properly and invest in modern mass production facilities.

Norton hasn't and isn't.
not sure what you mean by no links to the past, i think triumph started up again mainly with triples and now also has a well rounded line of twins,

the new norton i thought had many parallels to the original commando,

i asked the question cos i got outa the game for decades and just having a recent fresh look over all of it, what went down and why,

bummer to see where norton is at tho i am totally blown away by the level of support there is today for the 70s commando,

i don't think it was just money when it comes to triumph's fabulous success but solid decision making/planning, execution etc all worked out in a big way

what little i have read of recent norton activity is there is money behind it and there seems to be great intentions ...but things ain't adding up..
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

money behind it ?? not really, otherwise you wouldn’t solicit a 3K deposit for the bike years before you had a running prototype.
 

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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

huskyfrk said:
money behind it ?? not really, otherwise you wouldn’t solicit a 3K deposit for the bike years before you had a running prototype.
Norton have a Six Million Sterling loan guarantee from the UK Government now ,that should have eased cash flow somewhat .

J
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

how much of that was spent on donington Hall ?? vs development ??
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Would be interesting to see the accounts and who actually owns Donnington Hall, is it the registered company Norton Motors and if there is a mortgage declared.

The export guarantee is a line of credit not cash in the bank, the full £6M is the top limit and you only draw what you need based on the order value you have on the books not yet paid for. Odd really as Norton seem to insist on cash upfront on all orders so there is no outstanding customer funds that need covering.
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Sorry chaps, but the upfront payment story is no longer true, in UK anyway. I understand it used to be that way, but no longer.

In UK Norton only ask for a 10% deposit at time of order. The balance is paid on delivery to the dealer.... This is how it was in Feb 2014 when I put my deposit down and Sept 1st when I collected the bike.... There was no chasing for payment etc, I paid the balance on the day the bike was registered.

Demo bikes are now readily available. But at the start, I can see Nortons reasoning for not issuing demos, why issue a demo when you have a full order book, all that does is lower your profit margin? Demo bikes can be sent out when there is a gap in production or orders slow down or a dealer pays for it, as Krazy Horse did with their silver Sport. The Norton dealers are all new as of 2014 in UK, and they have the demo they bought. I understand Krazy Horse are going to sell theirs in 2015 when its a year old, note: Norton are KH best selling Marque.

I remember Nortons own demo as the black Café Racer that everybody from Henry Cole to Ewan Mcgregor to the MCN idiots took out and thrashed as a promo tool! When I did my factory tour it was in bits in the workshop as some idiot pranged it on the way back into the factory but still going strong after 4 years of abuse...
 

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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

huskyfrk said:
money behind it ?? not really, otherwise you wouldn’t solicit a 3K deposit for the bike years before you had a running prototype.
that's what can happen looking at something for the first time, going over what you first come across and there's volumes of reading out there,

i just got the impression that the current ceo was rolling in the dough, then i saw that donnington building and thought wow!

anyway, going over this thread that came up after a stuart garner wiki goog

trouble-mill-t11690-210.html


hmmmmm, just noticed for the first time this thread is in the new norton section :oops: my intent was the vintage forum, i have only glanced here in te 961 area
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

The Vancouver BC Norton dealer has a couple sitting for sale and has reduced prices a bit. No need to pay a deposit or wait for these. There is a red SF Sport ( new, 2014 model) available for the equivalent of £11,700.

Glen
 
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Re: from the commando on, looks like triumph eventualy got t

Talking of capital I wonder how much Norton owner paid for the stately pile...might have
been better invested in producing bikes....or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

Image insnt everything.

Andy
 
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