Featherbed frame design went against all engineering princip

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Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

84ok said:
texasSlick said:
I think the biggest mistake made by the British motorcycle industry was thinking: "We know how to put it all together to make it work right; no one else can ever figure it out - therefore we have a lock on the sport motorcycle market." Meanwhile the Japanese built a machine that did not handle, but did not leak, and stole the market.
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a purpose built machine that your Co may be based on, can also have little relevance to what the average joe is looking for in street use,

in fact folks flocked for the opposite when it became available
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I suggest that you cannot use many motorcycles on public roads, the way their designers intended them to be used. It is almost impossible to have a road bike and use it for racing, unless the race class is controlled to provide a level playing field for a group of similar bikes. Riding my Seeley on public roads as a commuter would be impossible. If I was going to buy a road bike, a nice quiet boxer BMW would be the go. If I was going to buy a modern racer the Moto3 Spec bike would be a good answer. If I wanted to buy something which was sane and simply provided good fun - a piece of old British garbage is a good answer, and you can even get a ride in historic races.
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

I like to ride every day, its would kill me waiting to be able to just ride on a race track, I do a lot of mountian rides where there is plenty of twisty roads and fast straights and its only a 15 minet ride to get started in the twisties or out in the backwoods of country road riding, that is how I built my Featherbed up, plenty of power, great handling in the tight mountian ranges and to be able to ride all day without any problems at all at any speed I wish to sit on, it was purpose built for just this, but it also rides and handles suburband riding as well, but since buying my Thruxton I now leave the country riding for the Norton, I have spent a lot of money on making the Thruxton handle better, but the Norton will still run circles around the Thruxton.
I read up a lot on the isolastic Featherbeds and my opinion is that it would just suff up the Featherbed handling, they are made to be slolid mounted and that means using the motor gearbox as part of that design and with isolastics would have a big affect on that design and these days you don't hear to much about them.

Ashley
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

texasSlick said:
and with embellishment to demonstrate rigidity:
Featherbed frame design went against all engineering princip
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Well, we learn something new every day.

Point 2 on your diagram doesn't exist on wideline frames.
Or manx frames.

So when was it added ??
Did Nortons say anything about this addition ?
Only seems to be on 60s slimlines ??

What is said to be a 68 Atlas
Featherbed frame design went against all engineering princip

Did all slimlines have it ??
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

My 1960 Manxman Slimline has number 2 fitted on it, so when did the Slimlines first come in late 59 ???

Ashley
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

ashman said:
I like to ride every day, its would kill me waiting to be able to just ride on a race track,
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Indeed, it would be hard to scratch that motorcycling itch with just 10 or 15 minutes at a time every few weekends or less....
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

acotrel said:
'The Second Law (of thermodynamics) rules.'

Tex you are an American, you have got a minus sign in the wrong place and the theory arse-about. Systems tend from disorder towards order. If you heat the end of an iron bar, that is disorder. When the heat is evenly distributed that is order. God created disorder when he created the universe. Entropy is the amount of disorder in the universe. Now tell me about motorcycle frames.
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Alan:

I am in a quandary whether your response deserves a counter response. Is is so blatantly facetious that I cannot see thru it?

if you are indeed serious, I will make you a deal.....

I will defer all things regarding MC frames to you, on two conditions:

1) you explain the flaw in my structural analysis that attempts to explain how a lightweight loop of tubing with wide bends can become rigid for the demands of a MC frame.

2) you allow me to live in MY UNIVERSE where systems go from order to disorder. I don't like the universe this way, but it is the only one I have.

Moreover, what has thermodynamics got to do with MC frames? You should be more careful, or LAB will throw this entire thread into the Pub, or at least into "Other Nortons" where it rightfully belongs.

Slick
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

the quote from the wiki is titled 'norton commando' and is in the first post of this thread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commando

the discussion is about what led to the commando and reasons given,

that is probably mostly interesting to new folks,

looks like the fearherbed was done and the commando not only took off,

but also offered folks what they were looking for, nevertheless, others became way better at it
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

This is my slimline frame when I first got it (1960 manxman) with the orginal paint on it.

Featherbed frame design went against all engineering princip


It has the same lugs.

Ashley
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

texasSlick said:
2) you allow me to live in MY UNIVERSE
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Actually, for once !!??, Allan is quite right - the 2nd LAW of THERMODYNAMICS does state that heat/energy will always level out,
and thus go from disordered to more ordered.

Where folks get confused is that entropy is generally said to increase, by the universe descending into more chaos.
Motorcycles wear out and get broken, for example, not fix themselves and get better with age....

Perhaps Slick should read up on what that 2nd law of thermo actually sez, precisely .... ?
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Looks like slimlines all have that labelled 2nd attachment point down the front.
How interesting.

No widelines, or manxs, had that ??
Wonder why Nortons did that.
Maybe they read that line about bad engineering principles.....
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

And who said the Commando frame was better than a Featherbed frame, I have owned both and glad I went down the Featherbed way, the Commando frame had to much flex and the reason was Isolastics and how many poeple on here has changed their Commandos to stop the flex with turn bolt adjusters or going to M111 Isolastics or other brands on the market to stop the side movement of the motor.
When I done a few rebuilds of my mates Norton motors and gearboxes I always told them when its time to do the Isolastics, I will be away those days :roll:
Don't get me wrong I still have a love of all Commandos, but I also have a love of Featherbeds and a love of all Nortons, I don't know where I be without one.

Ashley
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

here's what struck me
http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models
The Commando came onto the scene at the Earls Court Show in 1967 and with its rubber mounted engine and swinging arm pivoting on the engine plates was a radical departure from the normally staid lines produced by British factories. The design developed into a whole series of 750cc and 850cc machines; the last and largest development of the Norton twin engine, the origins of which date right back to the Model 7 of 1949
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http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models/heavy-twins
With the appearance of the revolutionary Commando in 1967, the Atlas became somewhat redundant and was deleted together with the 650SS from the range in 1968.
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looks like a point of that was then, this is now,

and then we have today,

might interest some, you can't get basic engine parts today, to rebuild an early goldwing engine

and you can get a whole lotta bang for your buck, including good runnung and looking bikes, loaded or naked for ~ 1k
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Rohan wrote:

"motorcycles wear out and get broken, for example, not fix themselves and get better with age...."


Now isn't that an example of order going to disorder?

Rohan, you and Alan better leave the thermodynamics to me, and continue your head butting among yourselves.

There are three things in the world that are absolutely irrefutable.....

First Law: You can't get something for nothing
Second Law: Worse than that (First Law), you can't break even
Third Law: That's the way things are...you might as well get used to it.

This is my universe....like I said I don't like it, but it's all I've got... and I can't get out of it!

Prof Slick
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Well they would say that, wouldn't they.
Companies selling things always say their newist product is the best.

Commandos were pretty special though, with those rubber mounts.
As soon as you rode one you could feel how smoooooth they were in the engine dept.

For the 99.99% of us that don't want to lap the Isle of Man under the lap record,
they were great......
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Slick, go and read up on what the 2nd law of thermo is all about.
And also read up on what entropy is.

"Entropy is a measure of progression towards the state of thermodynamic equilibrium "

Equilibrium is making order out of disorder....
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Rohan said:
Slick, go and read up on what the 2nd law of thermo is all about.
And also read up on what entropy is.

You seem to be mixing them up....

"Entropy is a measure of progression towards the state of thermodynamic equilibrium "
Click to expand...

Rohan, I have had all the reading up on thermodynamics I require....5 graduate years' worth.

Talk to me when you can explain Ludwig Von Boltzsman's epitaph:

S = ln (omega)

I'm done here.

Bye all

Slick
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

So you leave misquoting us the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. ??

Entropy INCREASES as temperatures level out in a closed system.
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

\it's the twistyotubus,bendeo magnfius ,cusing nasty effectus diddy allover the placus emendo. deep joy/ Quote Stanley Unwin :lol:
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Bingo on the Brilliance of Commando isolastic frame, it allowed bigger 360' twins to be tolerated not be best handling frame though adequate to please most users.

My Swami Nity Gritty told us "Its not a something for nothing universe"

Ole Ludwig's S was just him crying after spilling cold milk into hot tea to see it curdle, as proven earlier by thrifty Brits pouring a bit of milk before the tea as tea cost more disorder in their lives than cheap milk.

Swami Nity Gritty also told us "The dullest pencil beats the best memory"
 
Re: Featherbed frame design went against all engineering pri

Or in other words "The palest ink is better than the best memory."
Old Chinese proverb.

And as Swami Google would say these days "who needs a good memory when you can always google to find the perfect answer."
As long as someone hasn't unplugged the cord...
 
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