Excessive 'Mayonnaise' in oil
- Thread starter Keith1069
- Start date
- Status
Actually it is everywhere, breather stub on timing case all the way thru to the tank. Years ago I used to clean the tank every time the rear tab fractured but now that's beefed up the tank only comes off once a year or every 3500 miles. These days I just do the breather and pipework every 500-1000 miles. As I said its usually just water in the catch bottle, this time sludge which I've never seen before. The only difference is that before the last long run I topped up the oil to mid way on the 'correct' dipstick which puts the running level at the return exit. Usually I run a bit lower. That would reduce volume in the tank and whatever crap was building in there might just have been forced out. That doesn't solve root cause but might explain a little different outcome from normal.
Maybe excessive water in fuel tank due to condensation????.. Might be time for half pint of metho into tank.... and or flush that also....
Another question ... if you drain the carb do you find water??
You may want to, Fit a water trap... The link below may not be suitable but you'll get the idea..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/29899-Fuel-M ... 3f407375ce
Plenty were fitted in the 50's/ 60's and were small with site glass and on lots of English cars from memory......
Another question ... if you drain the carb do you find water??
You may want to, Fit a water trap... The link below may not be suitable but you'll get the idea..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/29899-Fuel-M ... 3f407375ce
Plenty were fitted in the 50's/ 60's and were small with site glass and on lots of English cars from memory......
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
I've life time of water in gasoline tanks, hoses and carbs and never ever saw maynonaise if I could get the things running so only reason I found the water is they ran so crappy on any throttle the water was sucked off bottom to either stall or barely recover running if letting throttle go. Water still suspended in gasoline will only make the chambers cleaner and run a bit sweeter as so little can remian suspended its undetectable. Generally water in system prevents starting so I doubt water in gasoline is a factor in this case. All the ring sealing failures I've had only made exhaust smoke and oil dark sooner but not emulisfied oil. On Peel through winter there'd be a week or so too cold to ride far so only used it a mile to mail box and back in 20's or moving it inside out of snow falls a couple 100 yrd after a few min to warm enough on choke to even take throttle to creep w/o stalling but no messy oil. Trixie is not fun enough to use but in nice conditions. Only reason I know that can cause mayonnasie is not getting oil hot enough long enough as all engines put out moisture below the pistons.
rvich
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,188
I battle mayo in my oil. Most of my riding is in a cool climate and the runs are often not over ten miles. So I worried about getting the oil up to temp. I am still tempted to block some of the cooling fins to raise the temp, but of course am reluctant to do so without having a way to read the temperature of the head and cylinders. I've thought about putting a temp probe in the oil as well. However, more to the point of this thread, I put a 25-watt transmission heater on my oil tank and plug it in when the bike is parked. It keeps the oil warm, my cam loves me for it and it drives the moisture out of my tank. My oil stays nice and bright longer and I don't have mayo at the vent. It doesn't stop it from forming while riding, but it makes it go away.
So, I guess I might as well admit that to keep the oil in the tank where it is warm instead of the sump I put in a manual valve. I have yet to forget to turn on the oil. I kinda think that unplugging the oil heater is a good enough reminder. I don't think the heater without the valve is of much value as warm oil just migrates faster.
Russ
So, I guess I might as well admit that to keep the oil in the tank where it is warm instead of the sump I put in a manual valve. I have yet to forget to turn on the oil. I kinda think that unplugging the oil heater is a good enough reminder. I don't think the heater without the valve is of much value as warm oil just migrates faster.
Russ
Not mk3 but early 850. Valve is norvil supplied and sits behind side cover fed into tank filler stub and exiting tank to bottle in batt tray. 1/2" to 3/8". Just drained tank which was nasty, lots of gunk, also overfilled which may explain why so much in the catch bottle.Biscuit said:
Anyway, taken all comments on board and will re ring the old girl as a start.
Sorry, don't know why I assumed MK3, You are in the best position to know if you're do for a ring job, but I think you may also be on to something regarding too much oil in the tank. The breather hose on my bike runs out of the timing side just like yours does, and straight to the filler neck of the oiltank about 3/4" down. The vent from the oil tank is located on top of it in sort of an extra bulge that adds an air space to the top of the tank presumably to separate the oil in the tank from the vapor. The oil return pipe in the tank, visible through the filler has two outlets and returns the oil well above the 'HIGH' mark on the dip stick. Is your tank configured this way? Is the vent from the oiltank getting more than just vapor? Just for shits & giggles you could just try a run with out the valve and catch can to see what happens.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2013
- Messages
- 1,560
Sounds like your rings are worn out or you only do short runs. My experience with British cars in the good old days was they wore out quick and when they did, excessive mayonnaise built up in the tappet covers and where the breather went to the air filter, it blocked the air filter as well. The breather gases usuallyy stank as well. Do yours? You have mentioned doing up the engine, I suggest you do so.
Norton foibles - expect the unexpected
I had oil going from the primary to the gearbox when its supposed to be the other way around. Primary not overfilled it just wanted to be that way
Heads are porous on some unfortunate bikes that cause oil leaks from elusive places in the head. Perhaps moisture is getting in the same way?
Is the bike left outside uncovered? if so then anything could be possible
Theoretically moisture can enter through the gearbox and find it's way to the engine via the primary, any moisture there?. It is a norton after all!
Good luck
Jed
I had oil going from the primary to the gearbox when its supposed to be the other way around. Primary not overfilled it just wanted to be that way
Heads are porous on some unfortunate bikes that cause oil leaks from elusive places in the head. Perhaps moisture is getting in the same way?
Is the bike left outside uncovered? if so then anything could be possible
Theoretically moisture can enter through the gearbox and find it's way to the engine via the primary, any moisture there?. It is a norton after all!
Good luck
Jed
No it isn't. I replaced the tank with a good used part many years ago while I was continually fixing the rear tab ( I wanted a spare tank to swop over). I noticed that the return opening was lower than the 'original', probably by 1/2". I also replaced the dipstick with correct 'Commando' part and now run just on the L mark. That's 2.9 litres including filter and lines etc. So in between marks or higher the return is submerged.
I just turned the engine over by hand to remove clutch etc. and compression is low. Too late to do a comp test now although I did back in March and got 110 lbs a side cold, after 8 kicks and throttle wide. I put the low reading down to the low engine temp. Now it's making me think.
Oh yes, plenty of experience on those too! Runs are usually 60-80 miles with regular 120 round trips. It's not only old Brit cars that suffer as my daughters modernish Seat (VW Polo platform) makes lots of Mayo and several winters ago this stuff froze, blocking the breather. So how did it breath? Thru the dipstick, pumping out 2.5 litres of oil in the process. Now, I managed something similar with the Commando by reversing breather valve connections, no effect on running up the motorway at 75mph, pulled off for a comfort break after an hour, parked and looked down for the sidestand, oil everywhere, black on one side from primary mixed with belt dust and clean on the other from wherever it had spewed. It took a stack of Burger King serviettes to clean.
This engine comes apart every few years, cam in and out last 2 x. I know the bores are good, no significant top ridge after 33,000 miles. Engine needs painting anyway.....
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2013
- Messages
- 1,560
SEat. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh.
Its obviously not from too much cold running. Something else is wrong. [ not shit oil is it ]. In the days when commandos were just babies we used Caltex oil. BP oil at the time behaved just like you are describing. Its not really likely to be sucking in water. It has to be a by-product of combustion [ doesn't it.]
Dereck
SEAT DUh I remember the Ibiza too well.
Its obviously not from too much cold running. Something else is wrong. [ not shit oil is it ]. In the days when commandos were just babies we used Caltex oil. BP oil at the time behaved just like you are describing. Its not really likely to be sucking in water. It has to be a by-product of combustion [ doesn't it.]
Dereck
SEAT DUh I remember the Ibiza too well.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ta.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
Someone might look up water/oil emulsification and cream/milk homogenization. Modern oil have anti foam additives but also water suspenders to avoid even a thin bottom layer that can corrode. I found out the hard way not to store rustable items covered in new oil w/o suspending off bottom of container. I was also shocked/pissed to find wd40 floated on tiny layer of moisture over night in open shed revealed by the multitude of rust sties fast spreading to merge. The main way my mowers created nasty mayonnaise mess was when left out in viscous storms that did leave a water layer under oil till whipped in a frenzie ugh. I got good as carb and tank water cleaning till I found a design flaw in fuel level indicator cap. Internal or external or both sources of water will make mayonnaise if not gotten hot enough long enough.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ta.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
1. about every known liquid on Earth will contain some water even trippple thumped moonshine - unless special treatments done, Ie: all oil has some H20.
2. at some threshold of water content oil will have enough H20's meeting each other to from clusters that attract more to clump in size drops tha settle to bottom. [via surface tension, hydrophilic attraction & buoyancy displacement in gravity or under acceleration principles]
3. all vintage or modern oils will float on top of a container of water.
4. modern oil packages let it hold more water before separation issues.
4. cool and whip oil with enough water in it will homogenize
5. oil with detergents and oxidation inhibitors can tolerate more water content than oil w/o this, how much more, not enough to stop some Nortons making salad dressing.
https://www.google.com/#q=engine+oil+water+
2. at some threshold of water content oil will have enough H20's meeting each other to from clusters that attract more to clump in size drops tha settle to bottom. [via surface tension, hydrophilic attraction & buoyancy displacement in gravity or under acceleration principles]
3. all vintage or modern oils will float on top of a container of water.
4. modern oil packages let it hold more water before separation issues.
4. cool and whip oil with enough water in it will homogenize
5. oil with detergents and oxidation inhibitors can tolerate more water content than oil w/o this, how much more, not enough to stop some Nortons making salad dressing.
https://www.google.com/#q=engine+oil+water+
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ta.
- Status
