EV drawbacks

ANYONE who questions the establishments party line about anything is labelled thus these days. Just look at Kahn and how he’s labelled anyone questioning his ULEZ stuff…
Yep the ulez is a case in point
Khan says people that are against it are conspiracy theorists!!
3 years ago khan said the ulez would not be expanded yet yesterday it happened
He also said there were no plans for pay per mile
Yet now they have admitted looking into it
He claimed pollution would be cut by 24%
And paid the imperial college of London £800.000 of tax payers money to look into it and they found the difference would be negledgable and less than 3%
So the deputy mayor tried to get their findings quoshed
He bought the cameras before the public consultation
Londoner's voted against ulez but he pushed it through anyway despite saying he would do what the people wanted!
Yet still no apology to the conspiracy theorists when these things turned out to be true
 
A group of misunderstood free-thinkers with enquiring minds guys? Can I respectfully proffer an alternate description. Maybe, a ‘cobbled cabal of contrarians’ (no offence intended - honest) with similar (but by no means the same) beliefs; agreeing to agree within the loose confines of the subject.

Equilibrium is maintained by agreeing with the basic tenets of the thread:

- EV’s are rubbish, unviable, dangerous and a hot-bed of corrupt enterprise.
- Current climate thinking is just plain wrong and (the vast majority of) the worlds climate scientists are inept or misguided and/or corruptly providing skewed data to garner fat research grants.
- Any evidence however small (a single EV fire will do) and from any source (completely discredited or no) is to be encouraged.

Where you guys diverge is when the subject turns to more ‘radical content’ - a few believe this content wholeheartedly, whilst others clearly do not. Those non believers disengage from conversation (no comments or emojies) until back on safer ground - equilibrium restored.

There’s (almost) no attempt to ‘enquire‘ as to whether some mainstream climate/energy thinking may be valid, transport electrification may have significant benefits, many in power may not have corrupt intent etc. etc. There is no appetite to even ‘enquire’ into each others belief systems.

The claim to have your enquiring minds restricted by a conspiracy label may be a bit of a stretch.

No intent to antagonise here, just my opinion and maybe an attempt at a slight nudge to the direction in which you guys are kicking this particular can.
 
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A group of misunderstood free-thinkers with enquiring minds guys? Can I respectfully proffer an alternate description. Maybe, a ‘cobbled cabal of contrarians’ (no offence intended - honest) with similar (but by no means the same) beliefs; agreeing to agree within the loose confines of the subject.

Equilibrium is maintained by agreeing with the basic tenets of the thread:

- EV’s are rubbish, unviable, dangerous and a hot-bed of corrupt enterprise.
- Current climate thinking is just plain wrong and (the vast majority of) the worlds climate scientists are inept or misguided and/or corruptly providing skewed data to garner fat research grants.
- Any evidence however small (a single EV fire will do) and from any source (completely discredited or no) is to be encouraged.

Where you guys diverge is when the subject turns to more ‘radical content’ - a few believe this content wholeheartedly, whilst others clearly do not. Those non believers disengage from conversation (no comments or emojies) until back on safer ground - equilibrium restored.

There’s (almost) no attempt to ‘enquire‘ as to whether some mainstream climate/energy thinking may be valid, transport electrification may have significant benefits, many in power may not have corrupt intent etc. etc. There is no appetite to even ‘enquire’ into each others belief systems.

The claim to have your enquiring minds restricted by a conspiracy label may be a bit of a stretch.

No intent to antagonise here, just my opinion and maybe an attempt at a slight nudge to the direction in which you guys are kicking this particular can.
I agree with much of what you say
I've said before it'd be nice to hear from the other side rather than preaching to the converted
Personally I think EVs have their place but I don't believe at the moment they are the answer that people are lead to believe
We have 7 years to go until the sale of new fossil burners are banned
So fossil burners will die out shortly after that and we are relying on technology catching up if EVs are to replace them
All this with a cut of 30% in public transport in recent years
And a power grid that only just coped last year with demand something magical will have to happen in the next few years
Germany have come badly unstuck and are re opening coal mines

To me an enquiring mind is one that isn't made up
But in the UK if you speak out or question anything mainstream you are labelled a conspiracy theorist and shut down/cancelled
People are afraid to speak out
Although gradually some scientists are starting to speak out
Only time will tell
One thing I have heard is that even the most radical tin foil hat wearers say they hope they are wrong
 
A group of misunderstood free-thinkers with enquiring minds guys? Can I respectfully proffer an alternate description. Maybe, a ‘cobbled cabal of contrarians’ (no offence intended - honest) with similar (but by no means the same) beliefs; agreeing to agree within the loose confines of the subject.

Equilibrium is maintained by agreeing with the basic tenets of the thread:

- EV’s are rubbish, unviable, dangerous and a hot-bed of corrupt enterprise.
- Current climate thinking is just plain wrong and (the vast majority of) the worlds climate scientists are inept or misguided and/or corruptly providing skewed data to garner fat research grants.
- Any evidence however small (a single EV fire will do) and from any source (completely discredited or no) is to be encouraged.

Where you guys diverge is when the subject turns to more ‘radical content’ - a few believe this content wholeheartedly, whilst others clearly do not. Those non believers disengage from conversation (no comments or emojies) until back on safer ground - equilibrium restored.

There’s (almost) no attempt to ‘enquire‘ as to whether some mainstream climate/energy thinking may be valid, transport electrification may have significant benefits, many in power may not have corrupt intent etc. etc. There is no appetite to even ‘enquire’ into each others belief systems.

The claim to have your enquiring minds restricted by a conspiracy label may be a bit of a stretch.

No intent to antagonise here, just my opinion and maybe an attempt at a slight nudge to the direction in which you guys are kicking this particular can.
I don’t think many people have said those things about EVs on here have they?

The general gist of this discussion is that EVs are not the panacea of green innocence / saviours of the planner, as is being peddled.

Kinda written in the thread title really… ‘EV drawbacks’…

Added to that is the legality topic. So seldom in human history has banning something been seen as the way to progress. Generally, things become obsolete because the successor is simply better. And if it isn’t, that competition massively accelerates development until it is.

As with any conversation, you get the normal distribution curve, with one tail on one side and the other tail on the other.

In this thread we have Shane in one tail, and you in the other Stephen, but by my reckoning the 95 percentile is in the centre of the distribution curve moaning pretty much about in my 2nd and 3rd paragraph above!

But whenever governments of the world start interfering with laws and banning things and propaganda which contains many self evident holes, it’s inevitable that people will start to ask ‘why are they doing this’? And when answers don’t come easily, it’s also inevitable that people will begin to look for answers in different theories.

Just how far those theories have to go before the are ‘conspiracy’ theories seems to be decided largely by people’s personal bias (on all sides).

Hence the absolute necessity of the role of free and open debate.
 
I agree with much of what you say
I've said before it'd be nice to hear from the other side rather than preaching to the converted
Personally I think EVs have their place but I don't believe at the moment they are the answer that people are lead to believe
We have 7 years to go until the sale of new fossil burners are banned
So fossil burners will die out shortly after that and we are relying on technology catching up if EVs are to replace them
All this with a cut of 30% in public transport in recent years
And a power grid that only just coped last year with demand something magical will have to happen in the next few years
Germany have come badly unstuck and are re opening coal mines

To me an enquiring mind is one that isn't made up
But in the UK if you speak out or question anything mainstream you are labelled a conspiracy theorist and shut down/cancelled
People are afraid to speak out
Although gradually some scientists are starting to speak out
Only time will tell
One thing I have heard is that even the most radical tin foil hat wearers say they hope they are wrong
Agreed, issues relating to time frames, development, introduction, sustainment and acceptance of EV’s is fraught with problems/challenges across the board. Not unexpected given the scale of the undertaking. Finding something to criticise is like shooting fish in a barrel - with an RPG!

An easier path for early adopters with savvy governance and a progressive thinking populous. More difficult for those playing catch up, with short term government thinking (like Aus) and potentially impossible for some developing countries (and why should they suffer/stay in poverty - the problem was caused by developed countries).

The intent though is a huge net reduction of ‘global’ CO2 emissions within a specified timeframe. Along with emission reduction requirements with coal, oil and gas & methane/HFC’s etc. Countries need to get onboard with alternative (incl renewables) or failure is assured. Including nuclear IMO.

Timeframes to the banning of new sales of ICE vehicle seem very optimistic to me also - you would expect those timeframes to slip where governments find unsurmountable difficulties. Thankfully I’d expect ICE vehicles to be with us for decades to come and no doubt that puts one of many obstacles in the way of net zero targets.

Despite ever developing EV technology (incl batteries) I see EV’s being just part of the technology mix. Others will undoubtably follow alongside EV tech, maybe even partly replacing it prior net zero target dates.

None of this is new or radical thinking - it is all mainstream. Challenging mainstream thinking is both healthy and necessary but, IMO, it’s gotta have a basis of credibility, be informed by good science and be delivered from a credible source. The underlying assumption of rampant corruption at all levels of governance and established science is just a cop out. The adoption of victimhood (they’re out to get we the common folk) just plain delusional.
 
I don’t think many people have said those things about EVs on here have they?

The general gist of this discussion is that EVs are not the panacea of green innocence / saviours of the planner, as is being peddled.

Kinda written in the thread title really… ‘EV drawbacks’…

Added to that is the legality topic. So seldom in human history has banning something been seen as the way to progress. Generally, things become obsolete because the successor is simply better. And if it isn’t, that competition massively accelerates development until it is.

As with any conversation, you get the normal distribution curve, with one tail on one side and the other tail on the other.

In this thread we have Shane in one tail, and you in the other Stephen, but by my reckoning the 95 percentile is in the centre of the distribution curve moaning pretty much about in my 2nd and 3rd paragraph above!

But whenever governments of the world start interfering with laws and banning things and propaganda which contains many self evident holes, it’s inevitable that people will start to ask ‘why are they doing this’? And when answers don’t come easily, it’s also inevitable that people will begin to look for answers in different theories.

Just how far those theories have to go before the are ‘conspiracy’ theories seems to be decided largely by people’s personal bias (on all sides).

Hence the absolute necessity of the role of free and open debate.

Agreed FE, I have the absolute advantage of commenting on the group as a whole which is way easier than trying to differentiate the belief systems therein, as you have so democratically tried to do.

Fair to say though, that the discussion on EV’s has included all of the facets I list and no discussion was generated from those that may have thought them inaccurate - with ‘free and open debate’ in mind.

Maybe a freudian slip, where you place me on an extreme (or tail) of the discussion. Quite amusing when you think of it - my predominently mainstream opinions characterised as on the extreme side? It may be more accurate to say that my beliefs are similar to the overwhelming majority of society. I’m not sure than places me on an extreme flank, other than on this forum.

Happy to debate points of difference. Not as interested in debating whether this thread is balanced or representative. With respect, it is’nt. I do say that whilst acknowledging the title of the thread.
 
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My wife's sister has a lady friend who lives in Albury and has a late model Ford Mustang. Recently that lady told me she sometimes takes it out onto a back road and drives it full blast. I told her 'I know why you do that'. The only thing it does not have is the 5 speed close ratio Tremac gearbox. It is a silly car, the only thing it is good for is making her feel happy. I think she is a nurse.
 
My wife's sister has a lady friend who lives in Albury and has a late model Ford Mustang. Recently that lady told me she sometimes takes it out onto a back road and drives it full blast. I told her 'I know why you do that'. The only thing it does not have is the 5 speed close ratio Tremac gearbox. It is a silly car, the only thing it is good for is making her feel happy. I think she is a nurse.
A "silly car".....
From your point of reference.
Try to understand, that, others may still enjoy high performance vehicles.
 
Agreed FE, I have the absolute advantage of commenting on the group as a whole which is way easier than trying to differentiate the belief systems therein, as you have so democratically tried to do.

Fair to say though, that the discussion on EV’s has included all of the facets I list and no discussion was generated from those that may have thought them inaccurate - with ‘free and open debate’ in mind.

Maybe a freudian slip, where you place me on an extreme (or tail) of the discussion. Quite amusing when you think of it - my predominently mainstream opinions characterised as on the extreme side? It may be more accurate to say that my beliefs are similar to the overwhelming majority of society. I’m not sure than places me on an extreme flank, other than on this forum.

Happy to debate points of difference. Not as interested in debating whether this thread is balanced or representative. With respect, it is’nt. I do say that whilst acknowledging the title of the thread.
My comments about you sitting in the tail are, as I have tried to explain numerous times, regarding your position within the normal distribution of the members of this pub conversation / thread…
 
It may be more accurate to say that my beliefs are similar to the overwhelming majority of society. I’m not sure than places me on an extreme flank, other than on this forum.

Absolutely nothing accurate about yet another one of your assumptive unsupported comments...but you do demonstrate that effete self awareness that is so familiar when it comes to your statements.
 
Well, I’m afraid to say that the govts of the world simply think that future versions of you simply do not need to travel…
This is the obvious solution and one that I personally find unpalatable. I believe there is an overall plan that involves travel and leisure for the elites and cramped living spaces, push bikes and bug sandwiches for the little people.
 
Absolutely nothing accurate about yet another one of your assumptive unsupported comments...but you do demonstrate that effete self awareness that is so familiar when it comes to your statements.
You are more than welcome to make a point LS, rather than an observation on how you perceive me and my commentary.

If you believe that current mainstream thinking has shifted (about climate/environment/sustainability for example), in a significant way, then make your point. Now that’s a discussion worth having.

IMG_8529.jpeg
 
Agreed FE, I have the absolute advantage of commenting on the group as a whole which is way easier than trying to differentiate the belief systems therein, as you have so democratically tried to do.

Fair to say though, that the discussion on EV’s has included all of the facets I list and no discussion was generated from those that may have thought them inaccurate - with ‘free and open debate’ in mind.

Maybe a freudian slip, where you place me on an extreme (or tail) of the discussion. Quite amusing when you think of it - my predominently mainstream opinions characterised as on the extreme side? It may be more accurate to say that my beliefs are similar to the overwhelming majority of society. I’m not sure than places me on an extreme flank, other than on this forum.

Happy to debate points of difference. Not as interested in debating whether this thread is balanced or representative. With respect, it is’nt. I do say that whilst acknowledging the title of the thread.
Everybody has an opinion and a right to an opinion
Do your opinions just happen to be the same as mainstream that we are fed?
Or are you influenced by them ?
For example if mainstream said father Christmas was real would you believe that or make your own mind up?
 
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