Electric Starter for Matchless Single

N0rt0nelectr@ said:
Now Alex said he was planning on making a trip down to see him and would ask about the plans and any other developmental notes he might have. He said he would hang on to my letter and get back to me in the next few weeks. So there is a chance we could get this done! Woohoo! I sort of expect that there might be a cost for the plans, how much I don't know. But, if this gets closed to getting done would anyone be willing to help?
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This sounds very promising! I am willing to help, within reason. Plans should be converted to a 3D model still. Maybe we can obtain the old 3D files as well?
Found an old email address for Dic MacCoon: mmrrllc@aol.com
Have you tried reaching Dic by email, John?

Cheers,
Knut
 
Knut:

Did Alex still have an address in Anacortes, WA? If he's still at his old address here, I'm only about 2 miles away. I met him when I gave a pitch to the club he was in about my N-V experiences. I went over to see his electric start conversion on his Matchless single.
 
When I was speaking to Alex we spoke briefly about how they were asked to build a starter for the twins. He said as has been discussed here before that the clearance between the starter, magneto and carburetor(s) was an issue they didn't want to tackle. They had offered the kits through the AJSMOC and for the exception of the 20 sold, mostly here in the US, nothing came of it.
Alex spoke of wanting to get the volume up so that the cost would come down.
As I said before, a very nice man.

John in Texas
 
frankdamp said:
Knut:

Did Alex still have an address in Anacortes, WA? If he's still at his old address here, I'm only about 2 miles away. I met him when I gave a pitch to the club he was in about my N-V experiences. I went over to see his electric start conversion on his Matchless single.
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Yes, he is. I would expect he would love to get a visit from you.
PM me and I will give you his address and phone number.
John in Texas
 
mdt-son said:
This sounds very promising! I am willing to help, within reason. Plans should be converted to a 3D model still. Maybe we can obtain the old 3D files as well?
Found an old email address for Dic MacCoon: mmrrllc@aol.com
Have you tried reaching Dic by email, John?

Cheers,
Knut
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The only email I ever had was the one attached to the video of the starter set up.
So, the answer is no.

John in Texas
 
He's in the phone book and I've visited his house a couple of times. I can find him, no trouble.

Thanks for your offer,

Frank.
 
N0rt0nelectr@ said:
The only email I ever had was the one attached to the video of the starter set up.
So, the answer is no.
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Hi John, did you hear back from Alex Taylor? He was to visit Dick Maccoon. I fear time is running out on us. If there's no progress on your end I am inclined to email Dick's doughter in an attempt to establish a direct contact.

Cheers,
Knut
 
mdt-son said:
Hi John, did you hear back from Alex Taylor? He was to visit Dick Maccoon. I fear time is running out on us. If there's no progress on your end I am inclined to email Dick's doughter in an attempt to establish a direct contact.

Cheers,
Knut
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Nothing more at my end. Frank said he was going to go by and visit. Wonder if he ever did.
John in Texas
 
Knut,
Any word on this front?
I am putting things on hold until I can get my garage up in the spring. But when that is done I will be back at it.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas,

John in Texas
 
Richard MacCoon's niece kindly passed information of his e-mail address and I have approached Richard with a request.

-Knut
 
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This eve Richard MacCoon wrote me a forthcoming mail. He is now 93 years old and is indeed interested in selling the business. He has drawings in Solidworks (I guess that means the 3D models), molds for castings, possibly two raw castings and some parts. Some of it resides with the suppliers and would need to be inspected and collected.

We should now start discussions how to organize a consortium, how many partners there will be, and the capital investment per head. Realistically I think we should look at investments of $35.000 to get the first kits for the twins ready. Purchase of Richards business is additional. The available patterns and models make it possible to launch the kits for AMC singles fairly soon without a big spending. The profit per kit is estimated at $500 at a price target of $2500 per kit.

The kit will include new inner and outer primary covers, a new clutch basket, starter gears, a solenoid operated starter, wires, a starter button and fixings, similar to the CnW kit. The primary drive may be altered to belt drive which will level the path to make a kit for G9/G12/G15/P11, but this will have to be dicussed. The new clutch basket will have a sealed bearing and an improved clutch stack using modern off-the-shelf plates. This will cure the marginal torque capacity of the standard AMC clutch. Furthermore the clutch hub will feature a modern spring system to level engine torque pulses. Springs may be different for singles and twins.

Further discussions should be kept private. Please send me a PM with your e-mail address if you would like to join the consortium with the aim of producing starter kits for AMC singles and twins including hybrids along the lines outlined above. I will then establish direct channels of communication.

Kind regards,
Knut Sonsteby
 
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mdt-son said:
This eve Richard MacCoon wrote me a forthcoming mail. He is now 93 years old and is indeed interested in selling the business. He has drawings in Solidworks (I guess that means the 3D models), molds for castings, possibly two raw castings and some parts. Some of it resides with the suppliers and would need to be inspected and collected.

We should now start discussions how to organize a consortium, how many partners there will be, and the capital investment per head. Realistically I think we should look at investments of $35.000 to get the first kits for the twins ready. Purchase of Richards business is additional. The available patterns and models make it possible to launch the kits for AMC singles fairly soon without a big spending. The profit per kit is estimated at $500 at a price target of $2500 per kit.

The kit will include new inner and outer primary covers, a new clutch basket, starter gears, a solenoid operated starter, wires, a starter button and fixings, similar to the CnW kit. The primary drive may be altered to belt drive which will level the path to make a kit for G9/G12/G15/P11, but this will have to be dicussed. The new clutch basket will have a sealed bearing and an improved clutch stack using modern off-the-shelf plates. This will cure the marginal torque capacity of the standard AMC clutch. Furthermore the clutch hub will feature a modern spring system to level engine torque pulses. Springs may be different for singles and twins.

Further discussions should be kept private. Please send me a PM with your e-mail address if you would like to join the consortium with the aim of producing starter kits for AMC singles and twins including hybrids along the lines outlined above. I will then establish direct channels of communication.

Kind regards,
Knut Sonsteby
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Hello Knut,
First of all, happy new year on Matchless !!
Your article is very interesting as well as your approach for a consortium.
I am currently in the process of adapting an electric starter for a G50 engine in a SEELEY rolling chassis - Since I am a former foundry manager, I made the wooden patterns and cast the half primary cases . I wanted to send you some pictures, but I have had a problem with my computer and I lost your email address -
As a contribution to the consortium, I can create the foundry patterns myself and take care of casting of the aluminum alloy cases.

All the best ,
Jean-paul ALTAYRAC
 
Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC said:
As a contribution to the consortium, I can create the foundry patterns myself and take care of casting of the aluminum alloy cases.
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Hi Jean-Paul,

A happy and prosperous new year to you as well!

Your Seeley project sounds intriguing. Rather than using a G85CS motor, I have dreams of fitting a G50 motor in an improved G85CS chassis. This is what the factory should have done, thereby creating a business for the future.

I am sending my e-mail address per PM.

Good offer on taking care of the castings. With no input from our stateside friends, I think the e-starter project will become a european project. I just hope the UK will remain in the EU ! :-)

The acquisition of Richard MacCoon's business will include molds. As soon as I get pictures, you will be consulted as to usability of these and what may need to be altered. Given availability of the SolidWorks 3D models, my timetable is to have an e-starter kit for the twins ready for trial testing within the year. As for the singles, re-launch of the current design could take place as soon as the supply chain has been set. A kit Mk2 featuring a revised primary drive may become ready for the 2020 riding season.

B.R.
Knut Sonsteby
 
Hi all,
I would like to update posting #51. A channel of communication has been established with Richard MacCoon and his doughter, who is his operations manager. They informed me there were 39 kits made, possibly excluding the prototype fitted to Alex Taylor's bike which has since been sold. Thus there are probably 39 or 40 AMC singles in existence worldwide which have had the e-starter kit fitted. I am interested in hearing from owners for a review.

Right now stock-taking is taking place at Richard's shop, aiding the valuation of his business. I will report back by the end of the month. I hope to see some of you guys in AJSMOC step forward in support of this project.

Kind regards,
Knut Sonsteby
 
mdt-son said:
Hi all,
I would like to update posting #51. A channel of communication has been established with Richard MacCoon and his doughter, who is his operations manager. They informed me there were 39 kits made, possibly excluding the prototype fitted to Alex Taylor's bike which has since been sold. Thus there are probably 39 or 40 AMC singles in existence worldwide which have had the e-starter kit fitted. I am interested in hearing from owners for a review.

Right now stock-taking is taking place at Richard's shop, aiding the valuation of his business. I will report back by the end of the month. I hope to see some of you guys in AJSMOC step forward in support of this project.

Kind regards,
Knut Sonsteby
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My but the New Year has brought some good news on the starter front. Lets see if we can get this off the ground for 2020.
I copied this conversation to the NA AJSMOC spares guy. I will contact you off list.
John in Texas
 
Hi John,

Thanks for copying the NA section of the club.

Another step forward ... I have received the preliminary stocktaking record. All tools and patterns are there and appear to be in excellent shape. Molds appear to be made of fiberglass polyester resin, which is a minor drawback as they can't be altered easily. Parts for a complete kit will be part of the deal (covers are raw castings though). This could serve as an evaluation kit when finished. A record of suppliers as well as the original fitting instructions are there. Tuesday the Solidworks / Mastercam models will be loaded and verified, for the first time in 7 years. Some aid to get the CAD/CAM process back on the track is offered by the individual who did the modelling back in 2012. This is a great bonus.

More news to come. I think we should be able to reach a sensible deal for Richard's business.

-Knut
 
I got a reply from the spares guy for the North American section. He sounds very interested in the project.
Do you know anyone who has a 3-D printer? That might make doing any changes a lot easier and prototypes easier to build and test fit without going to the expense of making a mold and a casting. As a confession I have never done any of this and I might just be talking out of my a** but at least I know what I don't know.
John in Texas
 
N0rt0nelectr@ said:
I got a reply from the spares guy for the North American section. He sounds very interested in the project.
Do you know anyone who has a 3-D printer? That might make doing any changes a lot easier and prototypes easier to build and test fit without going to the expense of making a mold and a casting. As a confession I have never done any of this and I might just be talking out of my a** but at least I know what I don't know.
John in Texas
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Hi John & Knut,
As a former foundry manager, I can tell you that you are absolutely right about plastic foundry patterns because you can not modify them to other forms of primary casing.
Because of the shape of the frames, the distance between the engine driving shaft and the gearbox shaft, as well as the position of the magneto, I think it is necessary to realize 3 new sets of foundry patterns: a set for twins, a set for single-cylinder in a Rickman frame and a set for single-cylinder in a Seeley frame.
These models can be made of wood or plastic.
I can support the manufacture costs of these patterns as being my participation in the future consortium, from technical drawings approved by all.
I have already realized the inner case pattern for the Seeley / G50 version
All the best,
Jean-Paul in France
 
Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC said:
Because of the shape of the frames, the distance between the engine driving shaft and the gearbox shaft, as well as the position of the magneto, I think it is necessary to realize 3 new sets of foundry patterns: a set for twins, a set for single-cylinder in a Rickman frame and a set for single-cylinder in a Seeley frame.
These models can be made of wood or plastic.
I can support the manufacture costs of these patterns as being my participation in the future consortium, from technical drawings approved by all.
Click to expand...

Hi Jean-Paul,

Thank you so much for offering the provision of new molds / patterns. I was a little disappointed by learning the existing molds are made of GFRP. However, for an initial run it doesn't matter, and I don't expect any modifications necessary. This will allow time to make new molds for the twins, sensibly out of wood.

Please remember that within the group of "twins", there will be particular variants for G12, G15 and P11, mainly affecting machining of the covers and laser-cutting files for the engine plates, hence we are talking of a sizeable effort here. These variations all have to be tested in prototype form for several 100 hours, which has to be managed, recorded and feedback given to design and fabrication.

From a commercial point of view, offering a starter kit for Rickman and Seeley framed singles (using G50 engines presumably) is simply not viable. There would be too many departures from the roadsters (G80, G12/G15) to allow development costs to be shared with them. How many kits would be sold of each in total? Less than 5 I guess. That is not to say it can't be done, but I don't support a diluted investment and effort going into the "mainstream" offerings. So, any work for these rare specials would be an offshoot, time and funds permitting. Nevertheless, Jean-Paul, I want to work with you on a CAD variant model to satisfy your requirements.

-Knut
 
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I don't know how many of the Rickman and Seeley framed bike out there, but I would think that there are more standard frame models? I have never even seen one but in magazines. I don't understand why the primary covers would have to be different from a standard model?
John in Texas
 
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