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Electric Starter for Matchless Single

Discussion in 'AJS & Matchless' started by Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    I had knee surgery in January and ordered up a starter kit from CNW for my 74 Commando Interstate. Planning on selling the 70 and 74 Mk2A Norton's as I can't afford to put starters on all of them. I expect I will sell my N15 and AJS 18s too. Between my knees and my wifes MS it looks like it is button bikes for me.

    John in Texas
     
  2. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    I wonder if a decompressor / starter switch like they used on XS650 Yamaha's would work?
    John in Texas
     
  3. mdt-son

    mdt-son

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Hi John,
    as the starter conceived for the G3/G80 will not fit the twins, any development work may use a starter with the appropriate gearing and avoid the trouble of fitting an electromechanical decompressor. Apart from looks and the need for costly custom foundry and turning parts, the solenoid, wires and mechanisms required will mess up the engine and creates several new points of potential failure.

    Regards,
    Knut
     
  4. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Wonder who did the castings? Might be a back door way to find the information needed?
    John in Texas
     
  5. mdt-son

    mdt-son

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    I have tracked Michael Muir-Harmony to Bernardston, MA. Anyone living nearby who could give him a call? Please PM me.
    Furthermore I have contacted Richard Maccoon for information on those involved in the project.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  6. p400

    p400 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    I am interested in putting electric start on a Norton upright 750 twin P11.
    P11 has some space for this.
    I would cut my OEM primary cases for this, and fit home made covers if necessary.
    I have thought this Commando kit starter could be rolled to the rear to make this work on a P11, but the internal needs to be worked out by somebody.

    TBShop$2500a.jpg
     
  7. p400

    p400 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    So this single primary was made larger to accommodate clutch basket added sprocket?
    And the sprocket was of large ID to allow bolted mounting?

    ElecSingleStart2.jpg
     
  8. Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC

    Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Hi,
    To answer your question, it is true that the width of the case is larger to accommodate clutch basket added sprocket
    I checked the dimensions: on the original case, the position of the inner wall is 116mm from the theoretical center of the clutch, while it is 125mm on the modified case - Moreover if the internal face of the bosses of the fixing screws is 103mm from the center of the clutch, it is machined to 113mm on the modified case.
    Jean-Paul
     
  9. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Let us know what you find out. I would be most interested in this project and so would my right knee!
    John in Texas
     
  10. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

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    Sep 15, 2014
    Just a thought but I wonder if someone has one of these starter kits on their bike. And was willing to remove the inner and outer primary to make a mold out of? I would think that would the biggie in building these kits but what do I know?
    I know what I don't know about casting that being is there shrinkage and would the pattern need to be a bit larger to accommodate the shrinkage?
    Working on getting the CNW starter mounted on my Commando. Got the release from the doctor so we are close to being back in the saddle again.

    John in Texas
     
  11. Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC

    Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Hello John,
    Must I call you "Luky Jim" ?? I'm a former foundry engineer and have made a lot of casting !! - You are right, the case patterns must need to be a bit larger to compensate the shrinkage - You must add dimensions on the patterns to around 12/1000 - Don't hesitate to ask me on any problem !!
    All the best - Jean-Paul
     
  12. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    I would not know where to start on making a casting. I know that Matt at CNW has his machined out of solid aluminum so that might be a way around the problem or maybe using a 3D printer to make them? Again, we would need a sample to work off of. Wonder what it would cost to "print" a primary?
    John in Texas
     
  13. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

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    Sep 15, 2014
    You know I was just looking at the picture of the clutch basket and I remember that a friend of mine had modified a AMC clutch to make it a 2 finger operation. Heinz has passed but I have a picture of what he did. Add that to a starter kit and boy that would be sweet.
    19 degree clutch.JPG
     
  14. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Any more progress in locating these starter kits or casting / machining info? In a conversation with Jim Comstock he has a 3D printer and I expect many other places do too, so if we could find someone who has a conversion and would be willing to loan us the parts to get them scanned we could be on our way to getting these made.
    The trimming of the meniscus in my right knee didn't solve my knee issues, it is pretty much bone on bone so it is now knee replacement time. Lucky me, but at least it can be done. I can start both my 18s and G80 with my left leg so I'm not down and out yet.
    John in Texas
     
  15. mdt-son

    mdt-son

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    I am afraid not, and I don't know what to do if those involved with the original project refuse to reply. I might try once more to contact Michael Muir-Harmony via his doughter, who holds an academic position, but I won't hold my breath. I think the best alternative is to start from scratch. The previous solution is clear enough, but I am sure it can be improved upon.

    Scanning the previous solution doesn't help much, you'd till have produce the patterns or the moulds, including the compensation for shrinkage.

    I will be busy with other tasks for the next two months. New garage and a proper workshop - finally!

    -Knut
     
  16. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

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    Sep 15, 2014
    I envy you getting a new workshop and garage. Hope to get that done myself come spring after we pay off some bills.

    John in Texas
     
  17. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

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    Sep 15, 2014
    I have located Mr. Taylors address and have sent him a letter. Did this the first of the week so I have my fingers crossed.
    Any word from Mr. Maccoon?
    Lets keep picking at this problem and see where we wind up.

    John in Texas
     
  18. N0rt0nelectr@

    N0rt0nelectr@ VIP MEMBER

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    Sep 15, 2014
    A reply from Mr. Taylor. A very interesting conversation.
    Alex Taylor called me a few minutes ago, a very nice gentleman. He said that they only built and sold 20 of the units not the 200 that were rumored to have been made. He and Dick MacCoon worked on them together and both are now in their 90's. A case of to little to late. Mr. MacCoon is living with his daughter his wife having passed away a few years ago, Mr. Taylor didn't have a name or address or phone number for her. Bummer. I did ask about the plans and Alex said that Dick has /had those.

    Now Alex said he was planning on making a trip down to see him and would ask about the plans and any other developmental notes he might have. He said he would hang on to my letter and get back to me in the next few weeks. So there is a chance we could get this done! Woohoo! I sort of expect that there might be a cost for the plans, how much I don't know. But, if this gets closed to getting done would anyone be willing to help?

    Alex did say that the clutch basket was machined out of solid billet to accommodate the starter ring gear and was one of the more expensive parts they had made. I would have thought the inner and outer primary, silly me.

    John in Texas
     
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  19. Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC

    Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Good morning, John ,
    I have made good progress on the problem of the electric starter:
    I am currently on the adaptation of a starter on a Matchless Seeley fitted with a G50 engine:
    I repeat the same principle as for the G85CS - To do this, I drew a new internal primary case, then made a wooden pattern model to be able to cast an aluminum part and machine it.
    The outer casing will be made by welding together pre-cut elements from two casings -
    I found a starter motor supplier similar to the original one - The starter ring will be cut by EDM and fixed on the clutch housing -
    As soon as the work is finished, I will send photos on the site.
    Jean-Paul in France
     
    mdt-son likes this.
  20. mdt-son

    mdt-son

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