Electric Starter for Matchless Single

I had knee surgery in January and ordered up a starter kit from CNW for my 74 Commando Interstate. Planning on selling the 70 and 74 Mk2A Norton's as I can't afford to put starters on all of them. I expect I will sell my N15 and AJS 18s too. Between my knees and my wifes MS it looks like it is button bikes for me.

John in Texas
 
kommando said:
If this conversion relies on the use of the exhaust decompressor then it can only be used on singles, the gearing is the issue and the same applies to the Pearson Gold Star starter which will not work on twins.

There are 2 potential solutions

1. Use a starter with internal planetary gears like the Mitsuba SM-13 and a ratio of 28 to 32:1 starter turns to crank turns. This same starter is used on Honda XRV 750 V twin with 11:1 compression and 29:1 gearing and a 700c twin quad bike motor with 32:1 gearing.

2. Fit chain saw exhaust decompressors to the twin head.
Click to expand...

I wonder if a decompressor / starter switch like they used on XS650 Yamaha's would work?
John in Texas
 
Hi John,
as the starter conceived for the G3/G80 will not fit the twins, any development work may use a starter with the appropriate gearing and avoid the trouble of fitting an electromechanical decompressor. Apart from looks and the need for costly custom foundry and turning parts, the solenoid, wires and mechanisms required will mess up the engine and creates several new points of potential failure.

Regards,
Knut
 
mdt-son said:
Hi John,
I am trying to track down the previous CAD files used for designing and milling the castings for the starter kit. I have received valuable information from Jean-Paul on modifications necessary to make a kit for the twins.
The initial project was undertaken 2011/2012 by Alex Taylor and Richard Maccoon. There was a second video by Michael Muir-Harmony. Maybe he or Mr. Maccon knows who did the design and if the files can be retrieved. Any help contacting these individuals would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
Knut Sonsteby
Click to expand...

Wonder who did the castings? Might be a back door way to find the information needed?
John in Texas
 
mdt-son said:
The initial project was undertaken 2011/2012 by Alex Taylor and Richard Maccoon. There was a second video by Michael Muir-Harmony. Maybe he or Mr. Maccon knows who did the design and if the files can be retrieved. Any help contacting these individuals would be highly appreciated.
Click to expand...

I have tracked Michael Muir-Harmony to Bernardston, MA. Anyone living nearby who could give him a call? Please PM me.
Furthermore I have contacted Richard Maccoon for information on those involved in the project.
 
Last edited:
I am interested in putting electric start on a Norton upright 750 twin P11.
P11 has some space for this.
I would cut my OEM primary cases for this, and fit home made covers if necessary.
I have thought this Commando kit starter could be rolled to the rear to make this work on a P11, but the internal needs to be worked out by somebody.

Electric Starter for Matchless Single
 
So this single primary was made larger to accommodate clutch basket added sprocket?
And the sprocket was of large ID to allow bolted mounting?

Electric Starter for Matchless Single
 
p400 said:
So this single primary was made larger to accommodate clutch basket added sprocket?
And the sprocket was of large ID to allow bolted mounting?

View attachment 4364
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Hi,
To answer your question, it is true that the width of the case is larger to accommodate clutch basket added sprocket
I checked the dimensions: on the original case, the position of the inner wall is 116mm from the theoretical center of the clutch, while it is 125mm on the modified case - Moreover if the internal face of the bosses of the fixing screws is 103mm from the center of the clutch, it is machined to 113mm on the modified case.
Jean-Paul
 
mdt-son said:
I have tracked Michael Muir-Harmony to Bernardston, MA. Anyone living nearby who could give him a call? Please PM me.
Furthermore I have contacted Richard Maccoon for information on those involved in the project.
Click to expand...
Let us know what you find out. I would be most interested in this project and so would my right knee!
John in Texas
 
Just a thought but I wonder if someone has one of these starter kits on their bike. And was willing to remove the inner and outer primary to make a mold out of? I would think that would the biggie in building these kits but what do I know?
I know what I don't know about casting that being is there shrinkage and would the pattern need to be a bit larger to accommodate the shrinkage?
Working on getting the CNW starter mounted on my Commando. Got the release from the doctor so we are close to being back in the saddle again.

John in Texas
 
Hello John,
Must I call you "Luky Jim" ?? I'm a former foundry engineer and have made a lot of casting !! - You are right, the case patterns must need to be a bit larger to compensate the shrinkage - You must add dimensions on the patterns to around 12/1000 - Don't hesitate to ask me on any problem !!
All the best - Jean-Paul
 
Jean-Paul ALTAYRAC said:
Hello John,
Must I call you "Luky Jim" ?? I'm a former foundry engineer and have made a lot of casting !! - You are right, the case patterns must need to be a bit larger to compensate the shrinkage - You must add dimensions on the patterns to around 12/1000 - Don't hesitate to ask me on any problem !!
All the best - Jean-Paul
Click to expand...

I would not know where to start on making a casting. I know that Matt at CNW has his machined out of solid aluminum so that might be a way around the problem or maybe using a 3D printer to make them? Again, we would need a sample to work off of. Wonder what it would cost to "print" a primary?
John in Texas
 
You know I was just looking at the picture of the clutch basket and I remember that a friend of mine had modified a AMC clutch to make it a 2 finger operation. Heinz has passed but I have a picture of what he did. Add that to a starter kit and boy that would be sweet.
Electric Starter for Matchless Single
 
Any more progress in locating these starter kits or casting / machining info? In a conversation with Jim Comstock he has a 3D printer and I expect many other places do too, so if we could find someone who has a conversion and would be willing to loan us the parts to get them scanned we could be on our way to getting these made.
The trimming of the meniscus in my right knee didn't solve my knee issues, it is pretty much bone on bone so it is now knee replacement time. Lucky me, but at least it can be done. I can start both my 18s and G80 with my left leg so I'm not down and out yet.
John in Texas
 
N0rt0nelectr@ said:
Any more progress in locating these starter kits or casting / machining info?
Click to expand...

I am afraid not, and I don't know what to do if those involved with the original project refuse to reply. I might try once more to contact Michael Muir-Harmony via his doughter, who holds an academic position, but I won't hold my breath. I think the best alternative is to start from scratch. The previous solution is clear enough, but I am sure it can be improved upon.

Scanning the previous solution doesn't help much, you'd till have produce the patterns or the moulds, including the compensation for shrinkage.

I will be busy with other tasks for the next two months. New garage and a proper workshop - finally!

-Knut
 
I envy you getting a new workshop and garage. Hope to get that done myself come spring after we pay off some bills.

John in Texas
 
mdt-son said:
I have tracked Michael Muir-Harmony to Bernardston, MA. Anyone living nearby who could give him a call? Please PM me.
Furthermore I have contacted Richard Maccoon for information on those involved in the project.
Click to expand...

I have located Mr. Taylors address and have sent him a letter. Did this the first of the week so I have my fingers crossed.
Any word from Mr. Maccoon?
Lets keep picking at this problem and see where we wind up.

John in Texas
 
A reply from Mr. Taylor. A very interesting conversation.
Alex Taylor called me a few minutes ago, a very nice gentleman. He said that they only built and sold 20 of the units not the 200 that were rumored to have been made. He and Dick MacCoon worked on them together and both are now in their 90's. A case of to little to late. Mr. MacCoon is living with his daughter his wife having passed away a few years ago, Mr. Taylor didn't have a name or address or phone number for her. Bummer. I did ask about the plans and Alex said that Dick has /had those.

Now Alex said he was planning on making a trip down to see him and would ask about the plans and any other developmental notes he might have. He said he would hang on to my letter and get back to me in the next few weeks. So there is a chance we could get this done! Woohoo! I sort of expect that there might be a cost for the plans, how much I don't know. But, if this gets closed to getting done would anyone be willing to help?

Alex did say that the clutch basket was machined out of solid billet to accommodate the starter ring gear and was one of the more expensive parts they had made. I would have thought the inner and outer primary, silly me.

John in Texas
 
Good morning, John ,
I have made good progress on the problem of the electric starter:
I am currently on the adaptation of a starter on a Matchless Seeley fitted with a G50 engine:
I repeat the same principle as for the G85CS - To do this, I drew a new internal primary case, then made a wooden pattern model to be able to cast an aluminum part and machine it.
The outer casing will be made by welding together pre-cut elements from two casings -
I found a starter motor supplier similar to the original one - The starter ring will be cut by EDM and fixed on the clutch housing -
As soon as the work is finished, I will send photos on the site.
Jean-Paul in France
 
N0rt0nelectr@ said:
A reply from Mr. Taylor. A very interesting conversation.
Alex Taylor called me a few minutes ago, a very nice gentleman. He said that they only built and sold 20 of the units not the 200 that were rumored to have been made. He and Dick MacCoon worked on them together and both are now in their 90's. A case of to little to late. Mr. MacCoon is living with his daughter his wife having passed away a few years ago, Mr. Taylor didn't have a name or address or phone number for her. Bummer. I did ask about the plans and Alex said that Dick has /had those.

Now Alex said he was planning on making a trip down to see him and would ask about the plans and any other developmental notes he might have. He said he would hang on to my letter and get back to me in the next few weeks. So there is a chance we could get this done! Woohoo! I sort of expect that there might be a cost for the plans, how much I don't know. But, if this gets closed to getting done would anyone be willing to help?

Alex did say that the clutch basket was machined out of solid billet to accommodate the starter ring gear and was one of the more expensive parts they had made. I would have thought the inner and outer primary, silly me.

John in Texas
Click to expand...
 
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