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Dominator SS owner's journey

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by iwilson, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    For lack of a better word, those pipes are just damned sexy. Nice idea with the rubber mount. Sorry about your service woes.
     
  2. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    About $1,250USD/£900 :shock: :D

    Very happy considering the factory charges an additional £1,000/$1,400USD for a lesser product imho.
     
  3. Raphi

    Raphi

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Yes, this price seems to be fair enough!
     
  4. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    The before and after

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    You have embarrassed the factory with those pipes sir!

    They look the business.
     
  6. Raphi

    Raphi

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I wonder, if they could fit the Commando 961 frame as well...
     
  7. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hello Iwilson , Are the mufflers on the Dominator solid mounted from the factory ? On the commando , the mufflers are hung through a large rubber bung at the back of the triangle support frame. The support plates are also very thick and these should not crack. The H-pipe is also hung through a rubber bung in the frame bottom. I have cracked a H-pipe in the past , with enough high revs it may crack again I suppose. The problem for me is that the bike is a joy to drive fast and hence I let it come alive again and again. This is what the bike was made for and some parts of it may need to evolve..
     
  8. Raphi

    Raphi

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Hello Tony
    Do you have pics of these rubber bungs? I am not sure, if these are missing on my bike.
    It was not the plate that broke, but due to rust the mount welded directly to the muffler...
     
  9. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Hello Raphi , The black colored piece is the rubber insert. There is also a smaller one at the bottom of the frame above the H-pipe .
     
  10. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    The stock system as you can see above does have rubber mounts. The megaphones use different mounting brackets (the triangular mounting brackets are removed completely). The megaphones bolt directly onto new footpeg brackets. Pic below will explain better.

    [​IMG]
    The bracket highlighted in red is discarded.

    [​IMG]
    Factory megaphone fitted - mount point is on the new footpeg brackets which replace the stock items. Note the triangular original bracket is now gone.

    [​IMG]
    My megaphones showing the rubber mount. The factory megaphones bolt directly onto where the rubber block is attached to the frame.

    Maybe the factory megaphones somehow reuse the rubber bush from the stock system, I don't think so but I'm struggling to believe they would not have addressed the issue. Perhaps the new footpeg brackets have rubber bush inserts, although I would have thought you would want to isolate the vibration from the footpegs. Will investigate...


    Other useful information - I asked the fabricator to measure the dB of the new megaphones.

    At idle - 87dB
    2,500rpm - 97dB
    Full noise - 120dB

    Loud but not obnoxious and to be honest given the very small volume to work with it would be extremely difficult to get better numbers than that.
     
  11. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hello Iwilson , Thanks for the information. That clears it up for me .
     
  12. Raphi

    Raphi

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Thank you both Tony and Ian
    Did not know about the rubber bushes, but I have them, at least at the muffler mounts. I will check if at H-pipe as well...
     
  13. BPHORSEGUY

    BPHORSEGUY

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    That is one gorgeous exhaust.
     
  14. Britfan60

    Britfan60 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Improved ground clearance considerably.
     
  15. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    As promised I took the bike in for a run on the dyno. There was a couple of reasons I wanted to do this:
    • Ensure the air fuel ratio (AFR) was within safe limits.
    • Compare the megaphones to the stock system.

    Due to the prevalence of modern computer controlled engine management systems there is very little you can do other than observe without spending large amounts of money. I know many of you are up to speed technically but for those who are not - the ECU controls fueling via two methods.

    • Closed loop - using data from the O2 sensor/s to constantly adjust the AFR to hit a programmed target. Mostly at part throttle steady state throttle settings.
    • Open loop - generally at wide open throttle positions, the ECU relies on pre-programmed fuel maps. It is operating blind, with the fuel/ignition map developed around a certain equipment configuration.

    By changing from the stock pipes to the megaphones the AFR would be affected in open loop conditions and it was important for me to ensure that the engine was still operating within safe limits. Some may be surprised to hear that the megaphones were down 4hp compared to the stock system. Although it was slightly higher in the mid-range. This all comes down the fuel and ignition maps within the ECU. The bike runs a bit richer with the megaphones at the top end and therefore produces less power. Lower down the fuelling is a little more optimum for the megaphones. With access to the ECU it would be relatively simple to alter the mapping to suit the new megaphones and probably gain another 10hp or so. Manufacturers are generally conservative when developing maps for obvious reasons. The numbers below are at the wheel so add on approx. 12% to get a flywheel number.

    Anyway here's a quick edited video of some of today's action (we did three runs on each exhaust system).

    [video]https://youtu.be/liNvdgOgZTo[/video]

    [​IMG]

    HP vs. Torque curve

    [​IMG]

    HP vs. AFR curve

    As you can see I don't muck around and have no time for subjective bum on seat dyno results. As I mention in the video and dyno is really only useful for comparing one change to another (on the same dyno). They are not particularly useful for comparing hp on one dyno to hp on another. Unscrupulous dyno operators are known to 'adjust' numbers to help sell performance improvements. If anyone knows how to get into the ECU feel free to message me...

    Still have not heard a peep from the dealer about the oil in airbox fix, but I did figure something out today. I'd wondered why I hadn't seen any oil prior to the first service. Turns out the reason was that during the run-in period RPM was restricted. The problem doesn't show itself unless you're fairly high in the RPM range. This was apparent on the dyno today. There was very little oil to see after I rode the bike quite conservatively the 30 or so miles to the dyno shop. However when doing the full power runs it became immediately clear oil was pouring out at high RPM. On the road of course you would never be aware of when exactly it was occurring but on the dyno it was apparent that this is an issue at high RPM.
     
  16. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hello Iwilson , Are you still running the ECU map that came with the bike from the factory with the stock pipes ? This all makes perfectly good sense . The map you need now will be 091 or even 092 I would think . John (G81 Can Cycle) said he is running 092 on his track bike. I think the Dominator comes with 090 for stock pipes . Richard found this out for us.
     
  17. richard-7

    richard-7

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    092 FOR OPEN MEGAPHONES. But this map is ONLY for TRACK use. So if you refer to using anything other than stock maps, we should all assume off road use only. Because if it got out that a small company offered or supported these maps for road use there could be problems. :mrgreen: John is using 092 on his track bike with good results. I'm not sure if he modified the air filter to allow for more air intake yet?
     
  18. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    No, can't remember the number but it's not the stock map or the megaphone it's the one in between. The dealer found the bikes ran much better on that map than the stock one. I wouldn't mind trying the megaphone map but it's quite a long trip to the dealer then back to the Dyno shop and if it's not great back to the dealer. Getting access to the ECU is a real pain on the Dominator to boot. If you're interested Richard I have taken a few photos of the process - it had me confounded for a while until I found the hidden bolts! By that stage I'd stripped off practically everything I could find with a fastener of some description!

    Right now the engine runs great and actually makes a bit more power where it spends most of its time. I don't really feel the need to extract every last pony, that's just not what this bike is about. In saying that if I would I could! :mrgreen:

    My friend with the other SS, dropped me a line last night to say despite his initial reservations it appears the oil has stopped flowing. I have not seen the fix so can't comment on what exactly it is, I'll probably take the bike up next week. Maybe I'll get them to load the Megaphone map at the same time... However if it doesn't support the O2 sensors and closed loop running I'm not interested.
     
  19. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I fully understand . If you CAN get it done , 092 may be the ticket for you my friend . It should fill in the top end nicely. The kind of pipes you have flow an incredible amount through them. These are essentially two racing Manx pipes side by side . Please keep that in mind and keep them fed ..
     
  20. iwilson

    iwilson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Quick update. The bike is being picked up today for the installation of the oil in the airbox fix. In the meantime I've been poking and prodding around.

    Firstly I wanted to see what the current draw is on the battery with the ignition off. The battery went flat in the four weeks it was sitting at the dealers and at the exhaust fabrication workshop.

    [​IMG]

    So a constant draw of around 11 milliamps. The ECU has an OBDII socket fitted which does provide useful information but I don't think is actually used by dealer workshops (at least not when I asked about it). Getting access to it is a bit of a nightmare given the number of nuts and bolts that have to come off. So I sourced a bluetooth OBDII scantool that switches off after 30mins of inactivity. With careful positioning I can turn it back on easily enough.

    [​IMG]

    Interestingly the wiring loom is labelled Domiracer 8)

    [​IMG]

    I tie wrapped the fuse holder and relays (a loose relay caused my first breakdown).

    [​IMG]

    All fuses are 10 amp except the main fuse near the battery. Middle two are spares.

    [​IMG]

    For those in the years to come who come across this thread because they can't figure out how the seat comes off here is your salvation!

    Remove the rear light cluster to access the two plastic screw rivets - I hope you have better luck than me undoing them - I hate them with a passion.

    [​IMG]

    Remove the two rubber grommets to access the two hex bolts hidden high up inside the seat.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Undo the fake oil tank lid behind the fuel tank - slide the seat back and lift clear.

    With the OBDII connector plugged in I do see a couple of faults displayed which reappear even when cleared down. Not sure if they're genuine faults or just ghost sensors that haven't been switched off in the ECU. Have asked the dealer to find out. Has anyone seen this before? No engine light displayed.

    [​IMG]

    Lastly I've been playing around with the GoPro trying to see if I can get some realistic audio by using an external mic in various positions. This is the best so far, but I have a much better mic on its way. But this is not a bad approximation to real life with the new megaphones.

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfP8OtSJbXQ[/video]
     

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