Cylinder Head Torque Setting

Hi All.
The Work Shop Manual Technical Data says to use "3/8 in." and "5/16 in." tools.
Well, i bought them but arrived two socket wrench very very small (i can convert them in 9,5 mm and 7,9 mm!!!!!).
These two tools are, the 3/8 marked A/ASL, and the 5/16 marked AS/L : are they inches????
I need to buy the right tube tools to use with my dynamometrical tool (3/8).
Please, what is the correct tool ?
B.S.F.?
Please, who supply these tools that enter easily into the front head 's holes?.
In Italy is very hard to explain to the suppliers.
Regards.
Piero

pierodn said:

Hi All.
The Work Shop Manual Technical Data says to use "3/8 in." and "5/16 in." tools.
Well, i bought them but arrived two socket wrench very very small (i can convert them in 9,5 mm and 7,9 mm!!!!!).
These two tools are, the 3/8 marked A/ASL, and the 5/16 marked AS/L : are they inches????
I need to buy the right tube tools to use with my dynamometrical tool (3/8).
Please, what is the correct tool ?
B.S.F.?
Please, who supply these tools that enter easily into the front head 's holes?.
In Italy is very hard to explain to the suppliers.
Regards.
Piero

Click to expand...

The manual maybe referring to Whitworth wrench sizes. I believe 1/4 Whitworth is one that is useful for the head bolts. when I get back home I will get the sizes needed to torque the head. Every Norton Owner should have a set of Whitworth wrenches and Sockets. What year is your bike? http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/whitworth.htm
Regards,
Thomas
CNN

pierodn said:

The Work Shop Manual Technical Data says to use "3/8 in." and "5/16 in." tools.

Click to expand...

I think perhaps what you are referring to is the torque setting data for the 3/8" and 5/16" head bolts and nuts, but this is the fastener diameter, not the hexagon size.

The hexagon/socket size is 1/4W (or WW) or 5/16 BS/BSF as both those spanner jaw sizes are 0.525" (inch) = 13.34mm.

Late 063192 stud nuts at the front of the barrel had reduced hexagons, so may require a 7/16 A/F (11.11mm) spanner.

14 mm socket ground a bit thinner works as well or better than 1/4 Whitworth and 9/16" SAE is a better fit on other engine fasterners. The bent wrench below is very helpful useful addition.

At the risk of repeating what others have already said, I'll add this, probably in much more detail than your really need. If I understand you correctly, you are in need of the correct socket size so you can use your 3/8" drive torque wrench on the cylinder head fasteners, particularly the two nuts inside the wells at the front of the head. These nuts are on the 5/16" diameter studs that are screwed into the cylinders and come up through the head. You need a 1/4 BS 3/16 W socket to fit the nuts. That's a standard size in most of the socket sets sold for British bikes. You can also use an 11 mm socket or a 7/16" SAE socket on these nuts. Both are a good fit for the nuts.

For the five hex head cap screws, you need a 5/16" BS 1/4 W socket. You might be able to use a 14 mm socket on these, but it's a pretty loose fit. Better to just buy a set of BS/W sockets.

Many of the supply sources for British bike parts sell both socket sets and wrench sets in the proper sizes. Commonly referred to as Whitworh wrenches, although usually marked in both British Standard and Whitworth sizes.

This site has a lot of info on various British fastener standards, and sells sockets, wrenches, taps, and dies for them:

http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.p ... l-kit-4010

This is the sort of socket set commonly sold by British bike supply houses:

http://vintagetriumphsupply.com/collect ... norton-bsa

Also available on eBay and Amazon.com. Just search on "Whitworth wrenches" or "Whitworth sockets".

Hope this helps.

Ken

lcrken said:

If I understand you correctly, you are in need of the correct socket size so you can use your 3/8" drive torque wrench on the cylinder head fasteners, particularly the two nuts inside the wells at the front of the head. These nuts are on the 5/16" diameter studs that are screwed into the cylinders and come up through the head. You need a 1/4 BS 3/16 W socket to fit the nuts.

Click to expand...

Those two nuts are usually also 1/4 W, 5/16 BS hexagon as far as I know? At least, they are on my Commando.

Hi and thank you to All.
But where i can buy a 1/4 W or 5/16 BS hexagon tube that enter into the wad's holes to use with dynamometrical tool?.
What do you use to torque the head?.
Ciao
Piero

pierodn said:

But where i can buy a 1/4 W or 5/16 BS hexagon tube that enter into the wad's holes to use with dynamometrical tool?.

Click to expand...

Most, but perhaps not all 1/4W, 3/8" square drive sockets will fit.

Examples: https://www.bodyshop-tools-supplies.co. ... Aueq8P8HAQ

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Imperi ... 540f2c10c3

pierodn said:

Hi and thank you to All.
But where i can buy a 1/4 W or 5/16 BS hexagon tube that enter into the wad's holes to use with dynamometrical tool?.
What do you use to torque the head?.
Ciao
Piero

Click to expand...

Ken

Ken,
You explained it best. A picture is worth a thousand words in any language barrier.
Piero you may not be able to get the torque wrench for the three bottom nuts (Two long at the front and one short at the back of the Cylinder head). You may have to use a ring spanner. And as Mick Hemmings stated "Tighten them sensibly".
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

I got a 1/4W socket from Mick Hemmings that fits on a 3/8" drive and will go in that hole in the head with a 3/8" extension. I had to grind the diameter down on that socket to make it fit on some of the gearbox nuts because of the close fit in the gearbox.

Some of the head nuts torque (dynamometrical ?) settings must be guessed at unless you have special tools.

I purchased one of these( saw it recommended on this forum) It attaches to an open end wrench so that you can use a torque wrench on those nuts and bolts only accessible from the side. worked on all the base nuts and head nuts next to plug holes

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-Adju ... 9b&vxp=mtr

Dennis

Hi Ken,
in Italy i can find a 13 or 14 mm like seems your tool, but not a 1/4 W or 5/16 BS.
I would like to buy.
Ciao
Piero

If you use 6 point sockets and not 12, you will get good torque numbers. 6 point sockets and box wrenches are forgiving.
The exception is the back bottom bolt. Order a 1/4w combo box wrench from RGM. This is the only whitworth wrench I have needed. This one fasteners torque is base on feel from the others of this size that were set by a torque wrench.

pierodn said:

Hi Ken,
in Italy i can find a 13 or 14 mm like seems your tool, but not a 1/4 W or 5/16 BS.
I would like to buy.
Ciao
Piero

Click to expand...

you can buy Whitworth socket sets on-line from a variety of places. I mentioned britishfasteners.com previously. From them you can buy this set of 6-point sockets

http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.p ... t-set-7907

Or this set of 12-point sockets

http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.p ... t-set-7906

Or this set

http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.p ... w-12w-7899

Or you can buy the individual sockets from here

http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.p ... ck-sockets

Andover Norton also sells the correct sockets and wrenches here

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/Tools.htm

There are a couple other on-line British supply places listed in this thread that have Whitworth tools available. If you just do an internet search for "Whitworth tools", you will find all sorts of sources.

Ken

Or just go to eBay and search for "Whitworth sockets" or "Whitworth socket sets". Lots of them there.

Ken

I use this. In England we call it a box spanner, I think it might be a tube spanner in the US. The good quality ones have a decent hexagon on the outside so you can get a normal 1/2" drive socket onto it and use a torque wrench.

The box spanner is 13mm which fits the head nuts nicely.