Cylinder Head Removal / Install

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Got the head on yesterday, took my time & did a dry fit first just to see how it would got. The method I used was:

1. I used shop rags to hold the pushrods in place, with a little jiggle I could get them right up inside the head.

2. I put some engine oil into the pushrod tunnels in the cylinder block to help with 'stiction' of the pushrods once seated.

3. I screwed in the oil banjo bolts on both sides of the cylinder head and bent some wire to go over the top tube & around the bolts. When I maneuvered the head over the barrels with one hand I could use the other hand to hook the wire on. This kept the cylinder head suspended over the barrels while I jiggled the pushrods into place.

4. Once I felt the pushrods were in the followers I started to lower the head. I had to keep looking through the exhaust rocker boxes with a torch and a screwdriver again jiggling the pushrods into place until the head sat flat.

5. I put the front center bolt in to hold the head down & put the 4 outside bolts in. I then gently turned the engine over with the rear wheel to ensure all the pushrods were in place.

6. Torqued the bolts as best I could, the two in the front that come up from under the barrels and the one at the rear I had to use my inbuilt torque wrench!!


I've fitted a copper head gasket. It was annealed and I put 4 coats of spray-on copper head gasket sealant. I also used some dental floss with some hylomar on the oil return hole and the pushrod tunnels. Time will tell if this all works!!

Hope to bolt everything else back together tomorrow and maybe start him up if its not too late.


Kevin
 
Good on ya Kelvin but two things occur to me, one the wire might tend to dig in the spine finish w/o protection and two no bragging rights to placing push-rods in while outside of the frame, so be prepared for mood swings on next removal, if ever done again.
 
hobot said:
Good on ya Kelvin but two things occur to me, one the wire might tend to dig in the spine finish w/o protection and two no bragging rights to placing push-rods in while outside of the frame, so be prepared for mood swings on next removal, if ever done again.
Click to expand...


Hi Hotbot,

I forgot to mention I had a piece of wood on top of the frame tube so no marks.

I have daily mood swings regarding my Norton :mrgreen:

If it leaks or has other issues after the work I've done we have a solution in Ireland for something like this . . . . . . . . . Guinness :mrgreen:
 
Hehe thanks click for the upswing mood in your remarks and protective wood. Next time [bowoo] think about zip ties or good bungee cord as one less item to fuss with, but I'll keep wire on wood in mind if I run short of the others. BTW preventive maintenance before need is a wise habit, so take your mood calming substance before handling the ever loving push rods bent over trapped in tight access and oily finders after using up easy neck reserves on some other life's fires to put out.
 
Previously on Cylinder Head Removal / Install: I have a 75 MK3 ES. It was smoking on the RH pot, I used the 'rope' trick & replaced the valve guide seal twice but it still smoked. I eventually bit the bullet & sent the head off for new guides/valves etc.

Update.

Started working on the Norton a few days ago, re-torqueing head, exhaust collers etc.

Took it out for a short 2-3 mile spin, whats this I see? smoke from the RH cylinder! (this was one of the reasons why I pulled the head!!)

Smoke seems white, so oil?

Couple of things went through my head:

1. Dodgy head job, possible but too early to point in that direction

2. Valve guide oil seal has popped off again (how unlucky can one bloke be!!!)

3. Search the Norton forum for possible answers

So, I did a compression test, 180 on both cylinders (cold engine, throttle wide open & I used the ES to spin the engine for two seconds)

After searching the forum I came across a thread discussing the breathing system. Jim C. explained something along the lines that a one way valve (like the XS650) attached to the timing cover breather pipe could cause oil to build up in the timing chest (I might not have this explanation bang on but its close to what was said)

I have the XS650 read valve plumbed into my breather pipe, its high up near the top of the oil tank. I thought it might need to be located lower down so I re-jigged the plumbing but still smoke from the RH side?

I also noticed smoke coming from the breather tube into the oil tank? This was quite noticeable and I still don't understand how smoke can get from the combustion chamber into the timing chest?

So today I decided to go back to the original breathing setup, just a straight pipe going from the timing chest to the oil tank (Although it's a 75, I have the same spam can air filter same as the 74 and the vent from the oil tank is connected to the back of the air filter plate)

I just started the bike up and . . . . . . . no smoke, previously there was a healthy puff of smoke on startup & then a steady mist of smoke coming from the RH exhaust.

I need to take it for a spin to be sure to be sure :-) but so far the XS650 read valve seems to have been causing my problems.

I think Jim C. mentioned that this was one of the reasons why his breather valve is located lower down in the cases, I'd like to fully understand what was going on here, anybody want to attempt an explanation (Jim C :mrgreen: )
 
Thats my next job!
Carnt be pi##ing about with wire,twigs and cardboard, Norton should have done this to start with. Nice one Heinz :shock: :!:



beng said:
Heinz Kegler drilled holes in the top of his cylinder head where the tops of the push-rod pairs pointed, tapped them and put threaded plugs in. He removed and installed the push-rods through those holes with the head installed on the engine.

Cylinder Head Removal / Install
Click to expand...
 
Too bad the picture doesn't appear anymore, I'd really would like to see it.
 
Went for a 10 mile spin and everything seems OK, no smoke :D

I'll get a few more miles on the bike over the next few days & see if everything is still OK.




click said:
Previously on Cylinder Head Removal / Install: I have a 75 MK3 ES. It was smoking on the RH pot, I used the 'rope' trick & replaced the valve guide seal twice but it still smoked. I eventually bit the bullet & sent the head off for new guides/valves etc.

Update.

Started working on the Norton a few days ago, re-torqueing head, exhaust collers etc.

Took it out for a short 2-3 mile spin, whats this I see? smoke from the RH cylinder! (this was one of the reasons why I pulled the head!!)

Smoke seems white, so oil?

Couple of things went through my head:

1. Dodgy head job, possible but too early to point in that direction

2. Valve guide oil seal has popped off again (how unlucky can one bloke be!!!)

3. Search the Norton forum for possible answers

So, I did a compression test, 180 on both cylinders (cold engine, throttle wide open & I used the ES to spin the engine for two seconds)

After searching the forum I came across a thread discussing the breathing system. Jim C. explained something along the lines that a one way valve (like the XS650) attached to the timing cover breather pipe could cause oil to build up in the timing chest (I might not have this explanation bang on but its close to what was said)

I have the XS650 read valve plumbed into my breather pipe, its high up near the top of the oil tank. I thought it might need to be located lower down so I re-jigged the plumbing but still smoke from the RH side?

I also noticed smoke coming from the breather tube into the oil tank? This was quite noticeable and I still don't understand how smoke can get from the combustion chamber into the timing chest?

So today I decided to go back to the original breathing setup, just a straight pipe going from the timing chest to the oil tank (Although it's a 75, I have the same spam can air filter same as the 74 and the vent from the oil tank is connected to the back of the air filter plate)

I just started the bike up and . . . . . . . no smoke, previously there was a healthy puff of smoke on startup & then a steady mist of smoke coming from the RH exhaust.

I need to take it for a spin to be sure to be sure :-) but so far the XS650 read valve seems to have been causing my problems.

I think Jim C. mentioned that this was one of the reasons why his breather valve is located lower down in the cases, I'd like to fully understand what was going on here, anybody want to attempt an explanation (Jim C :mrgreen: )
Click to expand...
 
Excellent job! Followed the thread, looks like you did a dam good job, Mayby a suspension tweek, to complete the package?
Regards
john lansdowne
 
john robert bould said:
Excellent job! Followed the thread, looks like you did a dam good job, Mayby a suspension tweek, to complete the package?
Regards
john lansdowne
Click to expand...


Are you offering sponsorship :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I have your front suspension mod on my 'list' :mrgreen:
 
Sponsorship. ?
My daughter is married to a Irish Lad, Now thats what i call sponsorship :lol:
Dont rush with the order, i am a bit over stretched at the moment.





click said:
john robert bould said:
Excellent job! Followed the thread, looks like you did a dam good job, Mayby a suspension tweek, to complete the package?
Regards
john lansdowne
Click to expand...


Are you offering sponsorship :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I have your front suspension mod on my 'list' :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
 
Your daughter obviously has VERY good taste :wink:

john robert bould said:
Sponsorship. ?
My daughter is married to a Irish Lad, Now thats what i call sponsorship :lol:
Dont rush with the order, i am a bit over stretched at the moment.





click said:
john robert bould said:
Excellent job! Followed the thread, looks like you did a dam good job, Mayby a suspension tweek, to complete the package?
Regards
john lansdowne
Click to expand...


Are you offering sponsorship :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I have your front suspension mod on my 'list' :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
New update :( the Norton Gods have been playing around with me!!

Went for another 10mile spin this morning, everything seemed fine but when I pulled into a garage to get petrol I noticed smoke from the RH exhaust :roll:

Did another few miles and then pulled the plugs, LH is perfect, biscuit brown, RH has obvious signs of burning oil!!!

So I'm back to diagnosing the problem:

1. I'm 99% sure the problem is in the head (compression on both cylinders is 180psi so I'm discounting rings/bore etc.)

2. I need to run the bike with the inlet & exhaust valve cover removed so I can see if there is a build up of oil in the rocker box

3. I'll see if I can poke around and ensure the drain hole from the rocker box is clear. I checked the drain hole in the barrel & head before I replaced the cylinder head but I'll check again)

4. I'll also check the orientation of the rocker shafts on the RH side, I'll use the wire method & see if I can locate the lubrication hole

Is there anything else I'm missing or can check?


More Anon!!!

Kevin
 
Make up a clear perspex cover for the inlet side. you can then rev the motor, other wise its a oil spray.
Or remove the spring Ludwig style and inspect the seal .
 
john robert bould said:
Make up a clear perspex cover for the inlet side. you can then rev the motor, other wise its a oil spray.
Or remove the spring Ludwig style and inspect the seal .
Click to expand...


Clear perspex is an excellent idea, might be a bit tricky getting the exact shape!

Previous to getting the head work done I made un the ludwig tools & inspected the oil seal a few times.

I think you can see the inlet seal by looking though the exhaust rocker box.


More Anon!

Kevin
 
Exht. rockers spit the oil mostly forward but also up to the stem area. I'd think just taping a foil cone around the box would stile and contain enough to see oil collecting or not. Might still spray face though on good blip ups. Maybe fold top over while reving to get good oil flow then let off and look in.
 
hobot said:
Exht. rockers spit the oil mostly forward but also up to the stem area. I'd think just taping a foil cone around the box would stile and contain enough to see oil collecting or not. Might still spray face though on good blip ups. Maybe fold top over while reving to get good oil flow then let off and look in.
Click to expand...


Another good suggestion using tin foil, at this stage if somebody suggested to make a foil hat, wear it & do a dance around the Norton chanting to the Norton Gods I'd give it a go if I thought it would solve my smoking Norton :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Small update:

Removed the spindle plates on the RHS just to make sure the oiling holes are orientated correctly and unfortunately they are!

I used the wire method to locate the holes, the rear spindle hole is facing the carbs and the front spindle hole is facing the exhaust.

Next is to start the bike and observe the oil levels in the RHS rocker boxes

Pic attached as I know you guys like photo's :mrgreen: (you can see my 'precision' tool for locating the spindle holes!!!)

I also found this on the Norton Owners Site about smoke from the RHS:

1) The pressure release valve spring is dying and allowing too much oil to flood the timing cover. From here it is passing straight into the right hand bore where your new rings, (which still need to bed in to do a proper job), are letting lots of this black gold up to the head. Once the oil warms up a bit, then the pressure in the system is dropping enough for the release valve to cope and stop the excess heading straight for the sump. The cure is a new spring and/or some shims to up the pressure release point.

Any comments??
 

Attachments

That exhaust tappet looks a a fair way out, is it stock?
click said:
Small update:

Removed the spindle plates on the RHS just to make sure the oiling holes are orientated correctly and unfortunately they are!

I used the wire method to locate the holes, the rear spindle hole is facing the carbs and the front spindle hole is facing the exhaust.

Next is to start the bike and observe the oil levels in the RHS rocker boxes

Pic attached as I know you guys like photo's :mrgreen: (you can see my 'precision' tool for locating the spindle holes!!!)

I also found this on the Norton Owners Site about smoke from the RHS:

1) The pressure release valve spring is dying and allowing too much oil to flood the timing cover. From here it is passing straight into the right hand bore where your new rings, (which still need to bed in to do a proper job), are letting lots of this black gold up to the head. Once the oil warms up a bit, then the pressure in the system is dropping enough for the release valve to cope and stop the excess heading straight for the sump. The cure is a new spring and/or some shims to up the pressure release point.

Any comments??
Click to expand...
 
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