Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance

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Piero,

Electrical machines of this type produce power proportional to speed. The regulator then controls the voltage by dumping any excess to earth and feeding a controlled voltage to the battery, which is fused to protect the wiring to the rest of the bike.

The alternator is dumb and doesn't care - it just produces an output.

In your case as has already been identified, I'm in the camp that believes the clearance was lost (for a reason which may never be found). This caused heating of such a magnitude as to cause the alloy of the rotor to melt, along with all the insulation & potting compound in the stator.

Bolts and nuts shake loose for fun on these bikes, and a faulty rotor cannot be ruled out.

The blown fuse will be better investigated when you've got the alternator rebuilt. I would not condemn the regulator until you've checked it's function as part of a viable system. I would be surprised if the exposed conductors didn't short together or to earth after the insulation had melted.
 
Piero,

the max. output of the Podtronic is 16 A. So normally the fuse can't be blown by the podtronic. And I can't imagine that the powerbox can destroy the alternator. But the alternator can destroy the powerbox, which then got a short and blow the fuse. So I would see the problem more at the alternator. And the most likely szenario is that the rotor got in contact with the stator. Perhaps a nut gets loose or a piece of metal gets between.
But this all are speculations and probably you will never know the real reason.

Ralf
 
Towner said:
Piero,

the max. output of the Podtronic is 16 A. So normally the fuse can't be blown by the podtronic. And I can't imagine that the powerbox can destroy the alternator. But the alternator can destroy the powerbox, which then got a short and blow the fuse. So I would see the problem more at the alternator. And the most likely szenario is that the rotor got in contact with the stator. Perhaps a nut gets loose or a piece of metal gets between.
But this all are speculations and probably you will never know the real reason.

Ralf
Click to expand...
Hi Ralf.
Yeas, i mean but thecsystem was well tight to the start.
In any case, first i must check the crankshaft end play.
Then, if the clearance will be correct, i will replace with a new 2 phases Podtronics (i have one new that works as Zener, Rectifier, Capacitor) and a new 16A Lucas Stator and new Lucas Rotor.
No more 3 phases because i cannot test if the Podtronics works without a 3 phase stator thst i dont have.
So, i will return to one phases because i have all i need.
But the next long ride i will take with me a fire extinguisher!!!!!
Ciao
Piero
 
Hi.
About rotor, i have a Nos old unused Lucas 54212006 dated 10/70.
I prefer this old new one than new.
Maybe was for a Triumph but i think the Commando had this numbers in 1970.
Ciao
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Hi.
About rotor, i have a Nos old unused Lucas 54212006 dated 10/70.
I prefer this old new one than new.
Maybe was for a Triumph but i think the Commando had this numbers in 1970.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...

I would buy a new. In 45 years it has lost al lot of magnetism.

Ralf
 
Towner said:
pierodn said:
Hi.
About rotor, i have a Nos old unused Lucas 54212006 dated 10/70.
I prefer this old new one than new.
Maybe was for a Triumph but i think the Commando had this numbers in 1970.
Ciao
Piero
Click to expand...

I would buy a new. In 45 years it has lost al lot of magnetism.

Ralf
Click to expand...

The early ones also work loose internally, and although they don't necessarily explode, they do make your engine sound as if it's about to throw a con-rod!
Hence the introduction of the welded rotor.
I remember reading about a French Norton garage which used to put Citroen 2CV suspension damper star washers either side to keep it all clamped together
 
Hi.
I have measured the crankshaft end play now.
Less than 1 mm.
No longitudinal play, the bearings seems working fine and in place.
I will fit a new triplex primary chain, another sproket (and new key), new rotor Lucas (and new key), new 1 phase stator Lucas, 3 new stator studs, bolts and washer, new 1 phase Podtronic.
What else?.
Ciao
Piero
 
Check clearance 360 degrees and through a full rotation of the crank. .010 is suggested but a little more won't hurt, .015. A Dremal tool and sanding disk is handy for this.
 
Hi.
I cannot unscrew the rotor nut, neither with pneamatic gun!
It seems well melted ith the rotor steel spacer.
Can i fire the nut and try again with the air compressed gun?
Ciao
Piero

Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance


Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance


Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance


Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance
 
Suggest no more air drill.

Try and cut through the nut with a small cutting wheel.
 
freefly103 said:
Suggest no more air drill.

Try and cut through the nut with a small cutting wheel.
Click to expand...

It is all to possible that the OD of the nut is totally fuse to the ID of the remainder of the rotor from the melt down. It is also possible the what is left of the rotor could be fuses to the crank shaft. YIKES!

Grind down to the nut surface through the rotor romance and stay away from the end of the crankshaft and its surfaces. Chip and chisel away what is left of the rotor from 2 or 3 side leaving just the nut. You might be able to then remove the nut. You can then assess the rotor pieces on the crankshaft. But for now, just try to reveal the rotor nut.
If you reveal that OD surface of the nut without touching anything else, the chances of saving the crank shaft increases greatly.

Take it easy and take your time.
 
Today I spotted a problem, but maybe that's just the consequence and not the cause.
You all know that I melted the rotor and stator and further broke the primary chain (which i shall be released immediately without blocking the rear qwheel never).
Today I started to replace the transmission.
I quickly noticed that the chainwell clutch not turned very circular but was spinning retort: I removed the chainwell clutch centre and bearing and i did a test with the clutch centre only, but it did not turned very circular.
So I removed the inner chaincase and I focused to verify how roamed the gearbox sproket.
Well, it did not turned very circular but spinning retort as if it were wrong the gearbox mainshaft (or perhaps failed the bearing).
So I think I should replace or gearbox mainshaft and/or the bearing.
But, in any case, what has to do this problem about the rotor stator melted?.
Can the primary chain turn retorted and fold, and then jolting the crankshaft (superblend FAG and 0.8 mm end play and not longitudinal play) by spinning the rotor crank against the stator?.
I will try to post a video but you cannot see well that the sprocket jumps!.
Thanks for the advices that i need.
Ciao
Piero
 
I really think you are chasing rainbows, here. Trying to figure out what happened and your reluctance to see the obvious is not helping you. :?

Sure, the main shaft would gotten bent when the chain failed due to the meltdown.

Just forget about the cause and get the darn bike back on the road. :roll:

By the way, how is the end of that crank shaft looking.
 
Hi.
The crankshaft looks good.
Good end play and turns right.
I will change crank shaft seal, crankshaft sproket and key, chaincase ineer cover, triplex chain, gearbox mainshaft, sleeve cage bearing, clutch center bearing, rotor and key and nut, stator and studs and washers and nuts, podtronics; all new.
What else?????
Ciao
Piero
 
DIDNT YOU HEAR SOMETHING . :shock:

A skilled artisan with a good eye and a steady hand , and a disc grider - could cut the ' remains ' to within a hairs breadth of the shaft. relieving the Tension .

TENSION . :shock:

or a Hack Saw . Or start with the disc grider , on the hex shaft. Maybe Two Circumfential troughs , and THEN a hacksaw .

Aternately :wink: :D If The Freds screw in , cutting through the nut & screwed in ??? :?: ??? stud should have it , er . . . FREE , or at least removable with a puller .

or WELD ( ARC ) tags on for the puller .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkLjr-q22Ik
 
Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance


Cut the Nut OFF , Flush . Dress with file so burrs removed .

Once the Alternator Center is removed , I would carve a flat from the remaining part , with the disc grinder .

Held Flat ( parrallel ) to the shaft , you can see when its JUST caught the TOP ( very ) of the threads .
You need to get there right along . With Vice Grips on the foward side , so its OPENING the tube , it should easilly unscrew .

Of Course , youll need to replace with a new retaing nut , but as you need one or two other pieces , this should be no great hardship .

Generally we shoot anyone that goes near my vehicals with a Shifting Spanner ( Cresent ) Let Alone VICE GRIPS .
Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance

But Like Cresent , maybe the Top Brand of Shifting Spanner ' Vice Grip ' Brand is top of the line .
Skilled Use , They will accept a Very High Grip , if youve the muscles , and fit square / tangental for maximum purchase ,

Will Often Remove Stubborn Components UNDAMADGED . However SOFT steel can be left with serration marks . Its when the SLIP , like with a spanner when IT does , that they burr or maul the component .

The IDEA is to SPLIT the Alt. Center , then , if necessary , the remaining nut .

Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance


A COLD CHISEL is a bit Brutal , but recomened for axle shaft wheel bearing retainers . Factory ( FORD ))

Crankshaft play end and maximum tolerance


HOWEVER a DISC GRINDER may be used to remover a FLAT across tangental to the radian . Usually within 1/2 mm , where it will usually split itself , or a light tap with hammer to a chisel will suffice .
FIRST with a CHISEL you cut a burr with the corner of the chisel , so it catches .
 
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