Crankcase Breather

cNw · May 26, 2009

Grand Paul,

You are right. Not everyone can copy certain parts. So its a good thing that it comes down to the fact that we have options.

-Buy the stuff that available....or
-Make it yourself.....or
-take a different approach and run with it

These different options will fit all budgets and people can spend as much or as little on the things they think are more or less important.

Matt

grandpaul · May 26, 2009

Matt, that's an excellent assessment.

I know I can never afford to have you build a bike for me, much as I would dearly love a copy of your aluminum tank cafe bike, and I would have really loved to have one of Kenny's 880s, but found a workable compromise in a "right place at the right time" scenario where I got a few choice bits and I'm doing the assembly myself with "field fabrication" where necessary to bring it all together into a working bike. Sure, I'm saving thousands of dollars, but it will never be what it's patterned after.

One of these days when I have more play money, I'll pull some of the stuff off the bike and replace it with custom made billet bling and higher quality bits here and there; for now, it suits me and it fits my budget.

Once again, I tip my hat to you in recognition of your accomplishments; the cream of the crop rises to the top over in Dolores, CO.

cNw · May 26, 2009

GrandPaul,

I am excited to see where the Commando market is going as people are creating some outstanding machines out there. The quality just gets better and better. The fact that the modified machines are getting as much or more attention than the originals also makes for a more diverse collection of bikes. Lot of personality shows through in so many builds.

I also believe that with the reintroduction of the 'new' 961 SE later this year, it will fuel even more interest with the Norton brand as a whole. If you can get a new bike in a show room, people will recognize the vintage machines on the road as well. Look at what happened when they made the new Mini available. It ignited the market for the older models that didnt get much attention before by other than the true enthusiasts.

Time will tell.

Also, Thanks for the nice words about what we are doing in this little town....I really apprecaite it.

Have fun with your 880 project

Matt

Foxy · May 26, 2009

Woops, hit the enter button twice!!

Foxy · Jun 3, 2010

Woops wrong hole!!

john robert bould · Jun 3, 2010

It cost fords Millions to develope the first Escort, hoping for a future return, and mayby 10 years to recoop.
On a lesser scale the Landowne Kit cost me over £10.000 to "produce ".admitted the time factor cost the most. Tooling was approx £2000 and as yet...no proffit! But thats Show Biss!!!

CNW said:
Hi,

Couple of reasons for this post.

First I just feel like I have to say something about the copying of the valve we make. I certainly understand that nobody can protect themsleves from people copying product (except with copyright of course), especially if the parts have been proven to work. What does disturb me is that somebody is comparing prices the way they do. They are proud to let everyone know that they can take someones ideas, copy it, and do it so much cheaper. What these people fail to consider is that it takes a whole lot of money to develop these parts. The price difference is certainly not because there is a Logo machined into the valve body.

-Number one we have a whole lot of time, years actually, for Jim Comstock to fine tune and make sense of how this valve need to be made to work as well as it does.
-We have developed CNC programs for 3 different valve bodies and 1 adaptor plate. MKIII, standard and -72.
-We have to make vaccum fixtures for those above parts.
-We have to machine enough of those above parts to make sense of the setup charges and try to bury some of the initial costs to make sense out how much money we have invested in each part
-We had to design and make a fixture that works for all engine years that will allow us to make mill the mounting area on the cases.

If I told you what the above cost many would probably think we are a bit crazy for doing what we are doing. Heres the thing though. We like to develop and bring these kits and developments to the market so many can benefit from them....this is the American way to do business isnt it.. If after we put all this time and effort into all this and didnt make any money of the end products...well, we wouldnt be in business for long. There has been countless American companies that had to close their doors after some over seas companies copied their product and offered it for less. We are not a hobby business....we do this for a living and can hopefully do this for some time to come.

I know we are going to sell a lot of valves because they work very well and most individuals arent going to try to make their own. If some decided to make their own, that is fine to, as long as they dont go out there and brag how great they are for taking sombodies hard work and discounting it. Making us look like we are over charging because we have all of our startup costs that have to be paid for.

The second reason for the post is in regards to the question about the -72 installation of our breather. We have designed and are making an adaptor plate that first mounts to the cases and the valve fits onto it.

....why dont you ask Jean to make you a copy of one. It will be a whole lot cheaper than buying it from us !

Matt Rambow / Colorado Norton Works

Holmeslice · Jun 3, 2010

CNW said:
...I for one am done with the Breather modification. Its there and it works !!! Now its onto something else that needs to be addressed on these machines to make them better.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

Here I am to vouch for it - it works. I have NEVER had a racebike be so oil tight as my current motor with the CNW breather on the backside.

In the past I have tried running with no valve, one-way ball type check valves, the motormite brake booster (which lasted about 1 lap), and even the valve folks are using from Mike's XS. I always had some mist from the head gasket after a good race, evident in the inside of my fairing.

I couldn't believe my eyes after my first session with this motor using the CNW valve - it was absolutely dry. I've raced the hell out of it now, and it's still dry at the head gasket, spindle covers, head fins, everywhere.

One unexpected downside to all this is now there is no mist of oil to keep my bare metal frame from rusting. But that's what I call a Quality Problem.

Thanks Matt and Jim.

grandpaul · Jun 3, 2010

Holmeslice said:
Here I am to vouch for it (CNW breather) - it works. I have NEVER had a racebike be so oil tight as my current motor with the CNW breather on the backside... I couldn't believe my eyes after my first session with this motor using the CNW valve - it was absolutely dry. I've raced the hell out of it now, and it's still dry at the head gasket, spindle covers, head fins, everywhere.

One thing for sure, you are in the top echelon of performance, both man and machine. So, that is high praise indeed.

JimC · Jun 3, 2010

I have NEVER had a racebike be so oil tight as my current motor with the CNW breather on the backside.

Amazing what getting rid of crankcase pressure will do, isn't it? There have been a lot of crankshaft seals needlessly replaced from lack of a properly evacuated crankcase. I know, I've replaced them myself. Finally wised up and hung a proper breather on my Combat.

chasbmw · Jan 2, 2014

What size bolt do I need to blank off camshaft breather?

Thanks

comnoz · Jan 2, 2014

I use a 1/2-20 x .6 socket head setscrew. Then use the jamb nut from the original elbow. Jim

Should I send you one?

Nortiboy · Jan 2, 2014

Just to show the old style crank case ventilation. Not a Commando but shows how times change

Very successful racing bike from the 80's. Six vent hoses terminate in the collector in front of the motor. (one from each tappet cover and each side of the cases)

swooshdave · Jan 2, 2014

One reed valve could probably replace all those hoses.

Nortiboy · Jan 2, 2014

swooshdave said:
One reed valve could probably replace all those hoses.

Yep, I reckon. We will race it like this and change for the sump plug reed later and see how it goes. It has the big sump plug so no problems.

chasbmw · Jan 3, 2014

comnoz said:
I use a 1/2-20 x .6 socket head setscrew. Then use the jamb nut from the original elbow. Jim

Should I send you one?

It would be great if you could, do you still have my details?

Charles

comnoz · Jan 3, 2014

chasbmw said:
comnoz said:

I use a 1/2-20 x .6 socket head setscrew. Then use the jamb nut from the original elbow. Jim

Should I send you one?

Click to expand...

It would be great if you could, do you still have my details?

Charles

Charles,
Maybe with some digging. How about sending me a PM with your address and I will drop one in an envelope. Jim

chasbmw · Jan 3, 2014

Jim,

PM sent

robs ss · Nov 9, 2016

Hi
I'm in the process of putting a small reed valve (same as Jim Comstock design) on the back of my 650SS (not original cases - orphan donor)
I would like some feedback on how I intend to handle to air/oil blown through the reeds.

I did not want to circulate blow-by gases through the oil tank but am concerned at the initial potentially high volume of oil blown up the hose.
I did contemplate connecting the reeds directly to the air/oil separator but shine away as I wasn't sure how much oil there would be.
I looked at various separators, even bought a used Suzuki TL1000 device from eBay but it really didn't look up to the job.
The BMW one looks good though and will hide neatly between the oil tank and battery box.
I tossed up draining the bottom of the separator into a catch bottle or attempting to return it to "service". The bottom of the separator is far too low to get it back into the oil tank so...
I have drilled/tapped a 1/8"BSPT into the opposite (RH) side of the lower rear crankcase which can be blocked with a blanking plug if this idea proves unworkable

I would appreciate any constructive criticism
Cheers
Rob

robs ss · Nov 9, 2016

Sorry about the unreadable pic - I'll try to show a larger version

Cheers
Rob

texasSlick · Nov 9, 2016

robs ss said:
Sorry about the unreadable pic - I'll try to show a larger version

Cheers
Rob

First off, you might look at my Atlas/Dommie oil scubber/separator. It has the advantage of simplicity, although the blow by gasses are passed over the oil in the tank, which you wish to avoid. Not pushing this, just something to consider.

Refer to: atlas-dommie-oil-mist-scrubber-t19002.html?hilit=Atlas/Dommie%20oil%20scrubber#p240772

Next, there is not a large volume of oil in the breather gasses except when clearing a wet sump. During normal running the oil is a mist which escapes from the oil tank via the vent line, to collect somewhere and appear as a leak. Oil mist will collect in the vertical oil lines if there is a reed valve blocking return to the sump. This oil is cleared on start up.

Now comments on your scheme.

I do not know the internal passageways of your oil separator but it appears to have sump pressure on both the inflow and drain ends. As such, there is no pressure differential to drive breather gasses thru the separator. Breather gasses will go thru the timed pathway preferentially (unless there is something inside the separator that I am not surmising )

If you were to put a stopcock in the separator drain line, remove and plug the timed breather line and route the new line with the CNW reed to the inflow of the separator, it should work. You would have to open the stopcock and drain the separator before starting. This might be a bother or you could drain it when shutting down, and closing the stopcock before starting. If you forget to close it, it may not function as a separator, but breather gasses should vent OK.

The oil tank must still be vented, and if my Atlas is any indication, oil mist tends to escape the vent line, hence the scrubber I devised to control it.
Slick

Crankcase Breather

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