CNW to the rescue

robs ss · Dec 25, 2022

For people looking at the possibility of a cNw e-start on a Dominator, I have been doing some measuring - and it's not good.

The lower part of the starter motor assembly (I think it's the solenoid housing) is approx. 36mm from the points/magneto mounting flange.
The stock Pazon housing "can" assembly is 55mm long.
So that's a 19mm clash.
Unless someone makes a low profile, short can or mounts ignition off the camshaft it appears this clash would prevent fitment of the e-start to a Dominator.
Cheers

texasSlick · Dec 26, 2022

With the current low temperatures in the sub freezing range, I am more interested in an electric start log splitter, than an ES motor cycle. But thanks for the data, rob, .... it will warm up again!

Slick

bsaboss · Dec 26, 2022

robs ss said:
For people looking at the possibility of a cNw e-start on a Dominator, I have been doing some measuring - and it's not good.

The lower part of the starter motor assembly (I think it's the solenoid housing) is approx. 36mm from the points/magneto mounting flange.
The stock Pazon housing "can" assembly is 55mm long.
So that's a 19mm clash.
Unless someone makes a low profile, short can or mounts ignition off the camshaft it appears this clash would prevent fitment of the e-start to a Dominator.
Cheers

Don Pender used a crank mounted pickup with his CNW e-start, so that may be the easiest way around the issue.

Crankshaft mounted ignition trigger

Working through some of the problems and looking to improve the control of the ignition in the Merlin DOHC 8V I'm looking at the feasibility of a flywheel triggered ignition sensor mounted somewhere in the crankcase. This was prompted by Steve Maney quoting that having the ignition trigger on...

www.accessnorton.com

He modified the outer primary cover for extra clearance, but that's pretty straightforward to do.
How do things look with the rest of the clearance issues - carbs, oil tank, battery box etc?
My other question was whether its possible to rotate the starter motor itself to give some wiggle room if necessary?

robs ss · Dec 26, 2022

bsaboss said:
Don Pender used a crank mounted pickup with his CNW e-start, so that may be the easiest way around the issue.

Crankshaft mounted ignition trigger

Working through some of the problems and looking to improve the control of the ignition in the Merlin DOHC 8V I'm looking at the feasibility of a flywheel triggered ignition sensor mounted somewhere in the crankcase. This was prompted by Steve Maney quoting that having the ignition trigger on...

www.accessnorton.com

He modified the outer primary cover for extra clearance, but that's pretty straightforward to do.
How do things look with the rest of the clearance issues - carbs, oil tank, battery box etc?
My other question was whether its possible to rotate the starter motor itself to give some wiggle room if necessary?

No issues with oil tank and battery box - looks like at least 40mm clearance on these.
My carbs (monoblocs) will come close to the highest part of the estart (the motor). It is the covers nuts for the main jets that will come closest. There is room for shortening these by about 5mm if necessary. Not sure about concentrics, although the 25 or 26mm ones I have will give at least 10mm clearance.
Rotating the unit would be difficult without any real advantage IMO.
The other items that will be close(ish) are the engine plates above/in front of the gearbox. There is plenty of room to reshape these, especially since the centre-stand spring mount will become redundant.

bsaboss · Dec 26, 2022

Engine plate mods aren't a worry and spare engine plates are cheap and plentiful, so it's all sounding pretty do-able really. I was only wondering about rotating the starter motor if that gave extra clearance anywhere critical.
I've got an Atlas to put back together in the new year, so it may well become a guinea pig. I'm also going to sell off an MGB project that I really don't have space for, so I can redirect some funds from that sale into a e-start kit.
In a related thought I have vague memories of reading somewhere that Matt's partner in the e-start (G81 on here?) has an Atlas. If so I wonder if he's ever sat down in front of it with a beer and given thought to a version to suit?

gortnipper · Dec 26, 2022

bsaboss said:
Engine plate mods aren't a worry and spare engine plates are cheap and plentiful, so it's all sounding pretty do-able really. I was only wondering about rotating the starter motor if that gave extra clearance anywhere critical.
I've got an Atlas to put back together in the new year, so it may well become a guinea pig. I'm also going to sell off an MGB project that I really don't have space for, so I can redirect some funds from that sale into a e-start kit.
In a related thought I have vague memories of reading somewhere that Matt's partner in the e-start (G81 on here?) has an Atlas. If so I wonder if he's ever sat down in front of it with a beer and given thought to a version to suit?

Ask @G81 Can Cycle ?

texasSlick · Dec 26, 2022

For me, the E Start issue for my Atlas boils down to this;
Install a flange mounted Joe Hunt magneto to enable easier starts .... Dear God forgive me.

Buy a modern (Thruxston or Bonnie), or a Commando and fit a CNW E Start.

Slick

Giving up on my K2FC is anathema, and so is getting a modern non Norton. My leg strength is failing me, so the issue is coming to a head.

robs ss · Dec 26, 2022

texasSlick said:
For me, the E Start issue for my Atlas boils down to this;
Install a flange mounted Joe Hunt magneto to enable easier starts .... Dear God forgive me.

Buy a modern (Thruxston or Bonnie), or a Commando and fit a CNW E Start.

Slick

Giving up on my K2FC is anathema, and so is getting a modern non Norton. My leg strength is failing me, so the issue is coming to a head.

Have you tried the RGM long kicker?
I put one on my "ES2" (11:1) and it improved starting (a lot!)
Cheers

texasSlick · Dec 26, 2022

I have the loooong kicker, I cannot get sufficient speed to get a decent spar,k, The leg strength is failing me. I cannot rise from a kneeling position anymore without something to assist me in pulling myself up. Getting old is not for sissies.

Slick

robs ss · Dec 27, 2022

texasSlick said:
I have the loooong kicker, I cannot get sufficient speed to get a decent spar,k, The leg strength is failing me. I cannot rise from a kneeling position anymore without something to assist me in pulling myself up. Getting old is not for sissies.

Slick

Then maybe EFI/coil will give the spark you require - no speed needed - just push it through?

texasSlick · Dec 27, 2022

robs ss said:
Then maybe EFI/coil will give the spark you require - no speed needed - just push it through?

I have considered that ..... giving up my magneto is unthinkable enough ....... adding coils more so.
My mind is settled on a Joe Hunt behind the cylinders.

bsaboss's post #4 gave me hope for a miracle...... now dashed to bits...... but I will get over it

Slick

G81 Can Cycle · Dec 27, 2022

bsaboss said:
Engine plate mods aren't a worry and spare engine plates are cheap and plentiful, so it's all sounding pretty do-able really. I was only wondering about rotating the starter motor if that gave extra clearance anywhere critical.
I've got an Atlas to put back together in the new year, so it may well become a guinea pig. I'm also going to sell off an MGB project that I really don't have space for, so I can redirect some funds from that sale into a e-start kit.
In a related thought I have vague memories of reading somewhere that Matt's partner in the e-start (G81 on here?) has an Atlas. If so I wonder if he's ever sat down in front of it with a beer and given thought to a version to suit?

Will have to get the Atlas on the lift and take a look. My biggest problem is I do not know if there is a big enough market to do this and have a reasonable price on the kit

jan nelder · Dec 27, 2022

texasSlick said:
I have the loooong kicker, I cannot get sufficient speed to get a decent spar,k, The leg strength is failing me. I cannot rise from a kneeling position anymore without something to assist me in pulling myself up. Getting old is not for sissies.

Slick

getting up from kneeling: try putting one foot on ground in front of you, and other toes behind you ( like starting a race) start pushing EQUALLY with both legs, and keeping your back upright, rising up to standing.
I learnt this while recovering from lower back strain, which it is also vg for.

bsaboss · Dec 27, 2022

G81 Can Cycle said:
Will have to get the Atlas on the lift and take a look. My biggest problem is I do not know if there is a big enough market to do this and have a reasonable price on the kit

"Build it and they will come" - it worked for Kevin Costner, so you can't go wrong!
There was a good article in the NOC magazine a little while ago about a bloke who'd built an electric start system for his featherbed twins. He used a Harley type starter that spun a ring gear attached to the back of the clutch. It worked like a charm and looked very neat. Hopefully you can make the numbers work for you (and all us old blokes who dream of push button starting!).

texasSlick · Dec 28, 2022

bsaboss said:
"Build it and they will come" - it worked for Kevin Costner, so you can't go wrong!
There was a good article in the NOC magazine a little while ago about a bloke who'd built an electric start system for his featherbed twins. He used a Harley type starter that spun a ring gear attached to the back of the clutch. It worked like a charm and looked very neat. Hopefully you can make the numbers work for you (and all us old blokes who dream of push button starting!).

Somewhere, perhaps on this Forum, I saw a one off rendition of a starter drive as you describe. I think it was on a P11, but should work on any FB framed mo-sickle . Or rather, any using the AMC clutch.

Put me down for one.

Slick

CNW to the rescue

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