Chinese Norton 650s?

Norton motorcycles announce ‘Design & Licence’ agreement with Zhongshen manufacturing of Chongqing, China.
Norton and Zhongshen have entered into a 20 year Design and Licence agreement over an all new 650cc twin engine. The 650cc twin engine jointly engineered and developed by Norton and Ricardo has been specifically designed to the requirements of Zhongshen and will be Euro 4 compliant. This enables Zhongshen to meet current and future emissions regulations, clearly an important step for Zhongshen and enables them to continue their phenomenal growth in the global motorcycle market.
The engine and its' IP developed by Norton is specific and exclusive to Zhongshen and it is expected the engine will be produced under the ‘Zhongshen’ or ‘Cyclone’ brands.
The value of the deal is to remain private, but the initial consideration paid to Norton is in the millions of dollars with an ongoing royalty on each engine produced. The agreement is for a 20 year term, last year Zhongshen produced around 4 million engines.
Norton CEO, Stuart Garner commented; “It’s a great endorsement of our new 650cc engine platform and shows the high level of engineering expertise we have here at Norton. Working with Zhongshen going forwards will enable them to deliver high quality low emission engines compliant to current global standards. The commercialisation of our IP is a key area for Norton and we will be investing the substantial revenue received back into our skills, training and engineering capability, thus ensuring long term sustainability to our British made Norton motorcycles here in the UK”
Please note; Norton will continue to hand make ALL of its' own Norton engines here in the UK at its' Donington Hall factory.

Chinese made Nortons?
In a word, disappointing.
I would have preferred a non-Communist Asian nation like Thailand.
I suppose it's a sign of the times though.

BritTwit said:

Chinese made Nortons?

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It doesn't say that.

Can't see the problem. He states that all Norton engines will continue to be made in the U.K. Norton are simply selling rights to the Chinese, for the new engine, to use in their own branded bikes. It is a genuinely good way for Norton to make a healthy margin, which, hopefully, will be reinvested for the betterment of Norton and Nortons.

Fast Eddie said:

Can't see the problem. He states that all Norton engines will continue to be made in the U.K.

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I'm just suspicious that sourcing cheaper motors manufactured in China is a very attractive alternative to more expensive UK.
But, I suppose you're right.
Anyway, the engine components will probably be sourced from the same suppliers - worldwide.

Well, despite my previous 'defence' of the engine situation, I would imagine that the issue of sourcing more and more components, and more major components, from cheap Asian suppliers, for use in the 'British' bikes will increase.

And that would piss me off. I find it really irritating when companies 'fly the flag' and make a song and dance about being British, when in reality, all is not as it seems.

I think Triumph are wrong in this regard. And I think if Garner goes too far down the same road it will back fire on him badly.

Fast Eddie said:

Well, despite my previous 'defence' of the engine situation, I would imagine that the issue of sourcing more and more components, and more major components, from cheap Asian suppliers, for use in the 'British' bikes will increase.

And that would piss me off. I find it really irritating when companies 'fly the flag' and make a song and dance about being British, when in reality, all is not as it seems.

I think Triumph are wrong in this regard. And I think if Garner goes too far down the same road it will back fire on him badly.

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If Triumph are wrong then how come they are getting stronger every year, it has worked for them and can't see why Norton can't do the same, remember its all about cost, every bike manufactures source their parts world wide, remember the old days of Britist motorcycles,,they all went to the wall because of cost blow out.
I would love to own a new Norton but the cost to buy one is beyond my bank account, thats is why I brought a new Triumph Thruxton over 4 years ago, the cost of a new Triumph out weights the cost of a new Norton by nearly half and the Triumph is so relieable, no problems at all in 50k on the clock.

Its all about making money and surviving in a world of economices gloome.

Ashley

I just think if they already have the engine, and it look like a good 'un, why not pop it in a generic frame with generic suspension have soome Norton tanks made up, ang get it on the market quickly as an "Atlas"?

Has anyone actually seen one of these mythical 650s?
I've read a bit about them, but have yet to actually see one in the flesh.
I wonder if they are so good, might Norton build a homologation dirt tracker to race in AMA competition?
Would be nice to see the Norton name back on the dirt tracks in the US.
DOHC, 4 Valve, liquid cooled - same as the Kawasaki 650's that compete.

ashman said:

Fast Eddie said:

Well, despite my previous 'defence' of the engine situation, I would imagine that the issue of sourcing more and more components, and more major components, from cheap Asian suppliers, for use in the 'British' bikes will increase.

And that would piss me off. I find it really irritating when companies 'fly the flag' and make a song and dance about being British, when in reality, all is not as it seems.

I think Triumph are wrong in this regard. And I think if Garner goes too far down the same road it will back fire on him badly.

Click to expand...

If Triumph are wrong then how come they are getting stronger every year, it has worked for them and can't see why Norton can't do the same, remember its all about cost, every bike manufactures source their parts world wide, remember the old days of Britist motorcycles,,they all went to the wall because of cost blow out.
I would love to own a new Norton but the cost to buy one is beyond my bank account, thats is why I brought a new Triumph Thruxton over 4 years ago, the cost of a new Triumph out weights the cost of a new Norton by nearly half and the Triumph is so relieable, no problems at all in 50k on the clock.

Its all about making money and surviving in a world of economices gloome.

Ashley

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You are right in terms of money!

But that doesn't make everything right. The way Triumph cover their bikes and displays in Rule Britannia regalia, and then claim that it doesn't matter where they are made, is surely hypocritical?

It's plain old market exploitation.

However, with Triumph, the truth is that most buyers actually are not that bothered, as proven by their fantastic sales, so Triumph could (and IMHO should) drop the Rule Britannia theatre.

Norton is different though, Norton buyers make a conscious decision to buy 'premium' (i.e. They willingly pay more than they would have to if they bought, from elsewhere, something that did the same job) and part of this decision is the 'hand built in England' appeal.

As an example, look at premium watches: People are happy to pay £30 for a Chinese fake Swiss watch. People are also happy to pay £3000 for a genuine Swiss made Swiss watch...

I doubt many people would be happy to pay £3000 for a Chinese Swiss watch !

If Norton damages their premium appeal they will be in danger of undermining their entire reason for existence (in their current form) IMHO.

My Triumph was assembled in Thiland, the factory there is the same design and has the same floor plan as the factory in England, Triumph source there parts world wide and is shipped to these two factories for assembling, so really they aren't made there they are assembled there, its sheaper for Triumph to export their bikes from Thilandto the US, Asia, Aust.markets than exporting them from England, factory in Enland for the European market and Thiland factory for the rest of the world and really when you think about it its good business to keep prices down and to make motorcycles for everyone not just a few who have to much money.

Look at Harlies and Harley owners they make a big song and dance about being made in the great US of A but really most of their parts are also sourced world wide thats why you need two tool kits to work on them, imperal and metric unless they have now gone full metric as its been some time now I owned a Harley, but to buy a new Harley these days you need a good bank balance as the prices are getting out of hand, its all about profites keeping the shareholders happy and not having GOVTs to bale them out when times go bad.

Ashley

Is Norton's 'premium appeal' based on fact or fiction ? For years the British motorcycle industry existed on the smell of an oily rag. The designs did not change much because of the investment needed to tool up to do it. The Japanese brought out new designs every five minutes and each one better than the previous. The only thing which will stop the Chinese is their metallurgy (attention to detail ) , and the British are not so flash in that department anyway.

acotrel said:

Is Norton's 'premium appeal' based on fact or fiction ? For years the British motorcycle industry existed on the smell of an oily rag. The designs did not change much because of the investment needed to tool up to do it. The Japanese brought out new designs every five minutes and each one better than the previous. The only thing which will stop the Chinese is their metallurgy (attention to detail ) , and the British are not so flash in that department anyway.

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Agree! Unless the Chinese have made advances In metallurgy of which I am unaware, they are still at the dawn of the iron age.

BTW ..... Garner received British government (taxpayer) financial assistance...... he owes the people to keep jobs at home.

Slick

acotrel said:

Is Norton's 'premium appeal' based on fact or fiction ?

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If I were in the market for a new Norton 650 it would bother me if Norton stuffed Zhongshen or Cyclone built motors from China into the frame, then put Norton badges on the bike, and Norton embossed engine covers on the motor, and then tried to charge me the Norton premium price.

If I’m buying a Norton and paying top dollar, the machine should be hand built in the UK.
That, and low production exclusivity are what make up Norton ‘premium appeal’ for me.
Even if many components in said bike are sourced from around the world.
Worldwide sourcing is a fact of modern like.
You can lament that fact or just accept it, but it’s not going away anytime soon, if ever.

As long as Chinese built motors are placed in Chinese built bikes, and UK assembled motors are placed in UK built Nortons, I’m happy, and the universe makes sense.

We have to bear in mind that the "Britishness" of these bikes will matter to most of the members on forums like this, however the vast majority of the public in general will not care a sh*t if his bike is made in Britain or China or anywhere else.

My daughter drives a Mini, another so called British icon, the car was conceived by BMW, and built in the Netherlands, with components from all over the planet. Do you think she cares? I think not.

I REALLY don't see how hardly gets away with the "Made in the USA" lie, when Maglite can't use "made in the USA" due to a $0.14 o-ring made in Thailand.

It's the sort of stuff that I'm sure pushes psychopaths to murder (or attempt to murder) politicians over here.

Hate to sound like an echo, but has anyone actually seen even a conceptual image of the new Norton 650 prototype?
Is it a sport bike, modern classic, cruiser, UJM, adventure/dual purpose bike, or what?
Stats? HP/Torque, weight, price?

People who buy Nortons because they are British-made are becoming an extinct species. I quite like the Indian Enfield sports bike with the Harris frame, however they seem too expensive for the quality level they represent. The thing about Asian-manufactured motors, is that they are usually copies of designs which are not highly stressed. I have a friend who works in a Honda dealership. People who go there trying to buy bits to fix Chinese motors etc. drive him crazy. The BMW-built Mini Minor looks excellent.

Peter:

Your daughter's car is called a "Mini" but it isn't a real one, for which you should be thankful. The original Mini's were very clever overall designs but very poor build quality. Several friends got new ones and had terrible problems. Engines rarely lasted more than 30,000 miles and transmissions even less. Interiors were very crude - no door panels - just paint on the inside of the door skin. No instrument panel -just a speedometer with a gas gauge built in, mounted to the center of a front transverse shelf (same location for both left and right hand drive!)

Ha! You find the strangest things sometimes.

http://www.cyclenews.com/2016/08/articl ... -650-twin/