Chain

Hi,

I never wait until the chain is completely worn out. If you have the correct slack, a good chain wears very slowly. After 6500 mls, when the tensioners have
moved a few mm, I change the chain without the sprockets. The sprockets look like new then. If you wait longer the sprocket wears out faster
with the longer chain. With this procedure you can change the chain about 3 times before changing the sprockets. If you want to save money you can use the half
worn chains at this state. But 3 chains on 20000 mls is only a bit more expensive as using an O-ring chain (with the special sprockets required).

Edit: How often you change the chain without sprockets certainly depends on the condition of the sprockets.

Ralf

So simple yet so complicated.

We are talking old classic machines here, before the curse of "o" ring.

When they were designed there were still "chain engineers" like my father and
there are correct lengths of chain for drives dependent on centre distance and
the number of teeth in the sprockets. This gives not only a smoother drive but
also gives best adjustment for wear. Bearing in mind that 2% elongation means
you are on soft material (I recommend changing at 1.5%), on these machines
the length was critical in matching the primary and rear drives.

As for changing chains and sprockets again it is simple. A chain and 2 sprockets
is a gearbox, not like, is. No engineer would think of changing one intermeshing
gear in a gearbox. Yes it would run but would induce high wear and noise. If you
change chains at between 1-1.5% elongation you will get up to 3 chains per set of
sprockets but each chain will wear quicker. I always send my clients to my supplier
direct as although sprockets are cheap they are heavy so postage then becomes
an issue.

Again I repeat myself about old machines in general. For nearly 100 years bikes
have had chain on. I have had almost every knid of Brit bike in my life and never
had an issue with chain, thanks dad. Back then Renold was king and the chains
superb but I am sorry to say, with motorcycles at least, it is not the case. The vast
majority of chains today are built to a price and the likes of iwis are very few
and far between. When iwis stop making the premium product I will stop selling
chains.

I will try to add photo of the crank link to explain the right and wrong way but
I have to add if the comments regarding the right and wrong spring clip are
anything to go by then I will have an uphill battle. It is interesting to know that
since that little spat I have had Norton owner come to my stand and also my
home to see first hand why the "modern" clips are crap.

Andy

andychain said:

If you change chains at between 1-1.5% elongation you will get up to 3 chains per set of
sprockets but each chain will wear quicker.

Click to expand...

That's what I experienced too. The problem for me is not the price of the sprockets, but the act of taking apart the primary.

Andy, are 10B-1 chains available here in the US?

Concours

They should be but if you can get hold of it it will crap.

I send chains to Australia for Commandos and the price is around £30 (sterling)
on an order of only 5.

Andy

I ordered a chain from Andy and it is very well built, with none of the clearance issues I had with the 530 chain..And the price of the chain was right about $100 including shipping to US............Bill

Hi Andy,
I have always been told that a chain system is at its best when: the sprockets are the same size, the speed is constant, the load is constant, and it runs in an oil bath...typical motorcycle conditions...no, but in industry yes, and that's the only place I have ever seen half links used. I have been a motorcycle mechanic for 33 years now (Japanese for the most part) and not once have I ever seen a half link used, from the factory. There must be a reason for that, I have heard they are the weak link. I probably could have used one today when I changed the chain and sprockets on a buddy's Suzuki Hayabusa, but I am not sure he would have appreciated me using one on his 150+ HP bike.

GB

Jonnymac uses the term stretch in his post. I'm pretty sure chains don't stretch but the pins and bushes wear. However, on a half link, the tension on the cranked side plates will be trying to straighten them out and so lengthen that one link. Now you are faced with one longer link than the rest. Probably not an issue with the power output of a Commando, but drag racing a Hayabusa……Hmmmm

So many questions.

Chain does not stretch as such but as stated the pins and bushes wear.

Bikes do not break chain but wear them so a heavy chain will wear more
by weight than BHP. Bike makers found this with 630, which was quickly
changed back to 530.

Chain makers say that a crank link reduces breaking load.....see above.

Bits of rubber dont make a chain bullet proof, my Bandit has 127bhp and
I have a standard iwis chain. O ring does make sense if you ride all weathers
and high mileage wirh out maintainance.

Tomorrow I will make an effort to post pics.

You pay the airfare and I will gladly come over to USA or OZ and explain why you
are being ripped off.

As a previous post stated even the look of the chain is important as my old man
said "if it looks good then it is", he is now 90 and the best chain guy I have ever known.


Andy

ooooh this thread looks like it could go on a bit longer, so here's my tuppence worth.

In all the years and all the bikes I've owned (mainly British) and of all the chains I've changed on those bikes, I have NEVER put a half link into a chain. Any adjustment was taken up with the adjusters isn't that what they are for?


I wish I took photos of my old chains and sprockets. When money was tight, and I didn't know better, the sprocket teeth looked like the wicked witches nose they were so bent over! and the chain side play was phenomenal! But I would also think twice before fitting a new link into an old knackered chain. aah the good old days


Be warned Andy this has the makings of the 'spring link' thread yay

CB

I will tread carefully and carry a big stick.

A lot of bikes dont have crank links but on old brit bikes they were common.

At the moment I am having made for a race Manx, a 1 tooth smaller front
sprocket as at 76 the chain is too short and at 78 its too long. The reason
is that the guy wants to use O ring on a primary drive that runs dry and
cranks are not made for O ring.

Squeeze a short chain in and by the end of the adjustment it will be maybe 2 or
more times over the wear limit and could fail, and fit a longer chain and you
will be changing the chain before its due.

I hope mto see you at a show.

Andy

In all the years and all the bikes I've owned (mainly British) and of all the chains I've changed on those bikes, I have NEVER put a half link into a chain. Any adjustment was taken up with the adjusters isn't that what they are for?

Click to expand...

Same for me. Depends on the swingarm but Commandos have at least a 1.25" long slot, enough for a link out if its beyond adjustment (and in need of replacement anyway) which of course is only half the slot length.

I now have pic of right and wrong fitting for a crank link, but still cannot figure
out how to post ..... DOH

I can e-mail them to somebody who can post them so e-mail me on
****************
Ta

Andy

Here's Andy's pic (L.A.B.)

andychain said:

At the moment I am having made for a race Manx, a 1 tooth smaller front
sprocket as at 76 the chain is too short and at 78 its too long. The reason
is that the guy wants to use O ring on a primary drive that runs dry and
cranks are not made for O ring.Andy

Click to expand...

First let me say that , I really enjoy and appreciate your input to this forum, it is encouraging (when thinking about keeping and improving these bikes) especially since you are a supplier too. Anyway , I had never thought of running an O-Ring chain as an alternative to a belt drive, is it a viable option on a commando type triplex primary ? Are there o-ring tri-plex chain available? Cj

Andy,

With the cranked link fitted correctly, is there also a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to fit the chain to the sprockets, or doesn't it matter?

It doesnt matter as long as the connecting link is fitted with the clip "close" end facing forward.

No the O ring is 1/2" so no good for Commando but the Merc duplex "big" pin chain is better than
any triplex, and dare I say it belts. See earlier posts where I stated, and not been sued, that 99%
of all current triplex is budget. It is a straight forward swop and is working well although I would
appreciate some feedback from those who have fiited it. On Laverdas it is well proven.

Thanks for that LAB but I bet some folks wont spot the difference.

Andy

Cheshire bloke said:

ooooh this thread looks like it could go on a bit longer, so here's my tuppence worth.

In all the years and all the bikes I've owned (mainly British) and of all the chains I've changed on those bikes, I have NEVER put a halflink into a chain. Any adjustment was taken up with the adjusters isn't that what they are for?







CB

Click to expand...

I have ridden bikes for lots of years and also had never needed the half link, but with my 1974 Commando, when I could get the chain to fit it was too long and near the end of adjustment with a new chain...The installation of a new Iwis chain with the halflink solved this problem and now have plenty of room for adjustment...Bill

andychain said:

It doesnt matter as long as the connecting link is fitted with the clip "close" end facing forward.

Andy

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, when you say "facing forward", do you mean the direction of ratation?

pete.v said:

andychain said:

It doesnt matter as long as the connecting link is fitted with the clip "close" end facing forward.

Andy

Click to expand...

Just to be clear, when you say "facing forward", do you mean the direction of ratation?

Click to expand...

http://www.bikernet.com/pages/Chains_For_Dummies.aspx

I can understand the theory, now that I've thought about it, but the 'wrong' way is how Renolds have been supplying boxed 99 link chains for the last thirty years at least. Is it really a problem in practice ? I can also understand the theory of fitting new sprockets with chains but I can't reconcile it with my ratio of probably six chains to a set of sprockets (and I keep two, swapping them over at each clean)... Does the sprocket advice also relate to primaries ? Here again, I couldn't imagine replacing a clutch drum simply because the Mk3's chain tensioner has started pushing the chain against the case where it runs close (no moveable centres on those).

With a 21t gearbox sprocket (on a Mk3 Commando anyway), 98 links cannot be fitted and 100 links is very close to the end of the slots. I have used 100 but it means removing two links very quickly...but if you do it too soon then you've made tyourself a scrap chain.