Can electronic ignitions do this?

I should have left that K2F on the shelf and not touched it. Now it works. Nothing I would consider "badly" wrong.

I just had to clean the slip ring up and spin it harder. I couldn't get a good grip on the armature with my fingers to spin it hard enough. I had to put the AAU on the armature to get a better finger grip.

Good fall project to reinstall the K2F. And instead of wondering when the TriSpark might fail again next summer, I can switch my worry pattern to when the K2F will fail. It's good to have options. :)
 
Schwany said:
I should have left that K2F on the shelf and not touched it. Now it works. Nothing I would consider "badly" wrong.

I just had to clean the slip ring up and spin it harder. I couldn't get a good grip on the armature with my fingers to spin it hard enough. I had to put the AAU on the armature to get a better finger grip.

Good fall project to reinstall the K2F. And instead of wondering when the TriSpark might fail again next summer, I can switch my worry pattern to when the K2F will fail. It's good to have options. :)
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Dual ignition coming right up 👍🤔
 
Racing magnetos are usually the rotating magnet type. Lucas SR magnetos used to be fitted to industrial motors, and are adaptable to single, twin and for cylinder use. Farm equipment suppliers in regional towns sold them, and some are still around. The boat people might also have them. Talk to the old guys.
 
The thread title is " Can electronic ignitions do this?", in reference to a Joe Hunt equiped engine being turned at 100 rpm and producing a good spark. Is it safe to assume JS sells these?

For absolute ease of starting the very best ignition has to be good old points and coils. I can hand start both Vincent 1000s fitted with those. The one fitted with the standard series D single point system isn't quite as easy as the one fitted with converted Norton Commando twin point twin coil ignition. I don't know what the RPM is but it's certainly less than 100. A lot less. I'm barely turning them over when they fire up.

I have tried hand starting my other smaller cc bikes with EI and no luck there.
The 650 BSA with its rebuilt Lucas is a good starter now, but not good enough to hand start.
So, going by the thread title, I take the inference that an ignition that produces spark at low speed is a very desirable thing, perhaps worth shelling out some big $ for.
Well guess what, if that is the measure of a fantastic ignition, there's no need to spend anything if you still have the stock ignition in place. You might want to spruce up the ATD, those do wear out eventually.
For my own needs, I really can't find much difference between any of the ignition types, I like them all provided the bikes start with 1 kick most of the time. The mag, the EI and the points all offer that kind of starting.
The EI ignitions and the mag like a healthy kick.
With the points bike you can be really lazy and just drop the leg, the starting is very low effort. Same result though, 1 kick to fire up.
Performance wise- I'm not sure there's anything in it between any of them.
A really fancy ignition might be something like Spinal Tap's guitar amps that go to 11 " for that extra push off the cliff" :)

This is the bike with Norton Commando points.
I won't be fitting an electric starter.... ever. One Vincent owner in the UK thought it had EStart as he was on the left when the bike started and he didn't notice me kick starting, since it can be done while sitting on the seat talking.

 
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Bloody show off Glen lol but as you say every bike is different my Norton has high compression and have never had the need to hand kick it over, all I need is a good pair of boots, have kicked it in bare foot a few times over the years but I have soft feet lol, better with shoes/boots have also many time kick it with soft rubber thongs (flipflops to all), in my early days had a lot of problems with the stock points set up was good when new always started first or second kick from my skinny chicken legs but about 2 years later lots of starting problems and even the experts were baffled, no one thought to look at the AAU behind the points lol, so instead of replacing it I took the EI road, 2 failed but one lasted 30+ years and was still going when I decided to go down the Joe Hunt road, to me was the best thing I ever done.
The JH is not for everyone and magneto's in general aren't for everyone, but its sure works well for me with my set up/bike.
A lot of people comment on/about the Joe Hunt and about how mine sticks out the side as well not having retard for ease of starting and to be honest it don't worry me as most comments are from people who have never owned one or owned a bike with any magneto's or know how good they really are and no matter what anyone says, to me the Joe Hunt was one of the best upgrades I have ever done to my hotrod Norton for ease of starting, easy to maintain and very easy to work on hanging off the side and that big spark as well always having clean and very long life out of the spark plugs, but of course carbs tune is very important as well and not rely on a fully charge battery or the size of the battery as well the weight of big batteries.
I don't try to covert anyone to go down the JH magneto road, it works so well for me and is always my own choice to do so and only others who have gone down the Joe Hunt road understand where I am coming from and the best part the BS story I tell people when they ask "what's that hanging off the side of your bike" anti theft device, if I catch anyone trying to steel my Norton I will connect the leads to their balls and give it a few kicks and watch their eyes pop out in shock lol, only joking of course, not lol.

Ashley
 
Reading Glens post made me think about why the EIs need more speed than points to spark. It’s a digital signal at the end of the day, it can do that at zero rpm if it’s allowed to.

I think the answer is it’s designed like that to help prevent kick back.

Dangerous kicking back used to be a thing. I’d wager that we all know someone who’s had a reasonably serious injury as a result.

The excellent anti kick back facility is one of the reasons I personally like Tri-Spark.
 
"Reading Glens post made me think about why the EIs need more speed than points to spark."

Do they? They are just a switch, like points. They do need more electrical power than points but can't see what the speed of rotation has to do with the switching function. They will certainly function at kickstart RPM, whatever that happens to be.
 
MexicoMike said:
"Reading Glens post made me think about why the EIs need more speed than points to spark."

Do they? They are just a switch, like points. They do need more electrical power than points but can't see what the speed of rotation has to do with the switching function. They will certainly function at kickstart RPM, whatever that happens to be.
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As I understand it, unless tricked into coming alive some of them don't fire until the second pulse. This is not true of Tri-Spark so with it installed, I agree. It's not really speed of rotation with the others, it's rotating far enough for a second pulse. On the second kick, if done quickly they are still "awake" so they fire.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
I believe I’ve rotated a crankshaft too slowly for the points to cause a spark, because they opened too gradually.
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I know better than to say impossible - highly improbable. You would have to open them so slowly that the condenser time was exhausted, and the points were slowly rising to a high resistance and bleeding off the charge in the primary of the coil. I'm guessing opening .0001" per second or slower.

Anyway, that's nothing like kicking speed.
 
My K2F has Yellow Joe Hunt Magneto plug wires on it. Lettering is really faded, but I was surprised when I noticed it yesterday. Did make me laugh a little.

Can electronic ignitions do this?


I wish I was tough enough to spin my crank with my fingers to see if the TriSpark would trigger a spark to the plugs. :)

Hot engine kick starts are easier with any ignition.
 
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One day I was at Winton Raceway, and my motor would not start. Then I found the connection which was apart. So I plugged it together, and shot my mate in the leg. He was standing behind the muffler.
 
I remember my old Boyar EI 2x it fired up just turning the key on as when you turn on the key on the Boyar would shoot out a spark and if the pistons are in the right place and fuel it will start by that one spark, first time it did it I was amazed but one day I was doing some work on my Norton and my mate was sitting on the right side of my Norton and I was on the left side doing something and when I turned the key on the motor came to life, my mate looked at me and said "how did you do that without kicking it over" I said magic lol but I wouldn't tell him how it happened lol, he hassled me for months about it and all I say is "magic" lol a few months later he was killed in a bike accident just down the road from my place and I never did tell him how it fire up that day, that was over 35 years ago and I still miss my old mate, RIP Eddie (his real name was Steve but we all called him Eddie).

Ashley
 
Fast Eddie said:
Reading Glens post made me think about why the EIs need more speed than points to spark. It’s a digital signal at the end of the day, it can do that at zero rpm if it’s allowed to.

I think the answer is it’s designed like that to help prevent kick back.

Dangerous kicking back used to be a thing. I’d wager that we all know someone who’s had a reasonably serious injury as a result.

The excellent anti kick back facility is one of the reasons I personally like Tri-Spark.
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Digital? I have an Ignitech which is digital and programmable, but the pulse from the inductive pick-up is analog (for want of a better description). The rotor needs to pass by the pickup at some minimum speed in order to generate the pulse. On the Ignitech you can select how many pulses it counts before it starts to deliver sparks. Probably ,as you suggest, that's a safety-related feature to make sure the crank is turning at a safe speed prior to igniting fuel.
 
I don't understand the "safety feature" aspect re needing X RPM. Points don't need some minimum RPM to trigger a spark and they are not considered "unsafe" Why would an E-ignition need a minimum RPM to be "safe?"
 
MexicoMike said:
I don't understand the "safety feature" aspect re needing X RPM. Points don't need some minimum RPM to trigger a spark and they are not considered "unsafe" Why would an E-ignition need a minimum RPM to be "safe?"
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It's todays cheesy buzz word. Society has conditioned people to be afraid of the unknown.
 
MexicoMike said:
I don't understand the "safety feature" aspect re needing X RPM. Points don't need some minimum RPM to trigger a spark and they are not considered "unsafe" Why would an E-ignition need a minimum RPM to be "safe?"
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Surely if zero speed is required, then the spark will be triggered at undesirable times, ie bringing it gently up to compression, no flywheel inertia to carry the momentum forward, so guaranteed kick back ?
 
Add to the fun with the fact that some EIs (my old Boyer) will spark when the ignition is turned on.
It once led to an unintended engine start, which I haven't tried to replicate since.
 
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