Beautiful but flawed?

Fast Eddie · Jul 24, 2019

David Hales said:
I have fitted risers and rizoma bars, still be it, May be because I am 57

Yes, I kinda remember now, you tried the ABM clip ons first but didn’t get on with them right?

What lift and shape are your bars? Are they similar to the stock Sport bars? I have to confess (but don’t tell any smug Sport owners) that fitting the Sport bars has transformed the riding pleasure of mine. And I’m a spring chicken at 51 !

BritTwit · Jul 24, 2019

David Hales said:
I have fitted risers and rizoma bars, still be it, May be because I am 57

Dave,

Were you able to get the ABM clipons to fit (wires, cable, hyd lines)?
Any issues?
Was the position still too uncomfortable?

Hosted on Fotki

TonyA · Jul 24, 2019

I would like to get back to discussing why people are disenchanted with the 961 . I understand unreliability and breakdowns . I read a new member not liking the experience at 80 mph.
I wonder what he was expecting ? More reserve power , smoothness or stability ? The reason I bring this up again is because after riding a few more bikes recenly I can say that the Harley Sportster Engine is the nearest similarity . They sell a bunch of those over here. I think the 961 offers a unique experience and actually gives lots of reasons to buy one. BUT if you never had a Vintage Commando it may be asking too much for newcomers to warmup to it. Like I said in another thread , the new Engines and bikes Norton are making need to bring in younger riders. And those bikes need to be reliable and fun to ride with good fuel economy. Norton has really taken it on the chin with the early 961's especially here in the states . The more I think about it , I believe that Norton would have been better served to keep the 961 in England where they would have greater control over things. Then once things got sorted out , reliability , supply chain etc. then go for the larger markets . Instead , now their reputation kinda sucks here. To a long time Norton owner and supporter like me it's very disappointing !

Fast Eddie · Jul 24, 2019

TonyA said:
The more I think about it , I believe that Norton would have been better served to keep the 961 in England where they would have greater control over things. Then once things got sorted out , reliability , supply chain etc. then go for the larger markets . Instead , now their reputation kinda sucks here. To a long time Norton owner and supporter like me it's very dissaponiting!

Tony, that’s what Norton did... it’s just that even after doing that they still weren't ready to serve an extended market properly !

It seems their treatment of dealers is the issue (not paying for warranty work, not supplying parts, etc).

I struggle to imagine that dealers make a huge margin on new 961s. Add to that that many (almost all?) will have some kind of remedial warranty work required. Add to that (if true) not getting paid for that work. And add to that the low volume. Basically, the reward for being a Norton dealer in the USA is probably a small operating loss!

Alternatively, just buy a HD franchise, sit back and watch the cash roll in !!

Fast Eddie · Jul 24, 2019

But getting back to being disappointed by the ride...

I bought my 961 largely due to being disappointed by other bikes. All other new bikes I rode were just too good and modern. They lacked the engineering deficiencies that lead to what we tend to call ‘character’.

Other than Norton, the only new bikes that delivered closest to the character I’m looking for is HD, but they failed to tick various other boxes (like weight).

HD engined Buell’s have this character too, and they’re brilliant fun, but they’re all a bit older than I was looking for now, and I didn’t want another ‘project’.

The Norton is therefore the only new bike that ticks those ‘character’ boxes for me.

But... and it’s a big but... to many people (most people) that ‘character’ is just agricultural poor performance!

And for those people, Triumph exist...!

Eljahara · Jul 25, 2019

Fast Eddie said:
But... and it’s a big but... to many people (most people) that ‘character’ is just agricultural poor performance!

The performance is more than adequate for the road - I would say spirited if you are in the mood. Once the suspension is dialled in it can be a reliable day to day commuter March to October...but....it definitely does sound agricultural!

bpjthornton · Jul 25, 2019

Yep, its great for the road. Ok for running on the motorway, but gives you an excuse for using an alternative 'back route' to get to your destination.

David Hales · Jul 25, 2019

BritTwit said:
Dave,

Were you able to get the ABM clipons to fit (wires, cable, hyd lines)?
Any issues?
Was the position still too uncomfortable?

Hosted on Fotki

Managed to get them to work and they was more comfortable, had to turn the brake and clutch lines and re-route some things

David Hales · Jul 25, 2019

Fast Eddie said:
Yes, I kinda remember now, you tried the ABM clip ons first but didn’t get on with them right?

What lift and shape are your bars? Are they similar to the stock Sport bars? I have to confess (but don’t tell any smug Sport owners) that fitting the Sport bars has transformed the riding pleasure of mine. And I’m a spring chicken at 51 !

I tried flat bars, now have ultra low rizoma, did think about putting the next ones up to see what that’s like

BikerBore · Jul 25, 2019

I brought my SF last September. Before that I had a Harley Dyna and a Hayabusa. I was getting frustrated by the Hayabusa. The Derbyshire roads were too full of cars, caravans and cycles. Most the time I’d get to some nice bends I’d have to slow for one of them and riding it slow was uncomfortable. I was finding I would leave it at home and take the HD as it didn’t matter setting stuck behind something. Problem was it doesn’t handle or brake very well. I decided I needed a slower bike, but it needed good handling and brakes. I also wanted something special. I was tempted by Thruxton, but saw some 961’s at the Norton Bike Night and loved the looks. Luckily I also heard them running as if I didn't, I’d have thought I’d brought a wrong un from the engine noise they make! Anyway one was purchased last year and I loved it. The vibes and noise for me just make it feel alive. My HD was the same. This year as it got run in and I started to ride it more I was finding it tiring to ride as the suspension was so hard and harsh. It was a bike for short runs and plenty of stops. Now that's been set it feels even better. Still a sporty ride, but no longer harsh. Can see they are not for everyone, but you could say that about any bike. There is so much choice of different types of bikes nowadays, it would be rude just to own one!

Britfan60 · Jul 25, 2019

TonyA said:
I would like to get back to discussing why people are disenchanted with the 961 . I understand unreliability and breakdowns . I read a new member not liking the experience at 80 mph.
I wonder what he was expecting ? More reserve power , smoothness or stability ? The reason I bring this up again is because after riding a few more bikes recenly I can say that the Harley Sportster Engine is the nearest similarity . They sell a bunch of those over here. I think the 961 offers a unique experience and actually gives lots of reasons to buy one. BUT if you never had a Vintage Commando it may be asking too much for newcomers to warmup to it. Like I said in another thread , the new Engines and bikes Norton are making need to bring in younger riders. And those bikes need to be reliable and fun to ride with good fuel economy. Norton has really taken it on the chin with the early 961's especially here in the states . The more I think about it , I believe that Norton would have been better served to keep the 961 in England where they would have greater control over things. Then once things got sorted out , reliability , supply chain etc. then go for the larger markets . Instead , now their reputation kinda sucks here. To a long time Norton owner and supporter like me it's very dissaponiting!

Don't get me started. I've always loved riding it. Still do. Here I am....another summer....another problem. 5 out of 6. I'll brag up and down about how cool it is. Something breaks....every.....effing....Summer.

TonyA · Jul 26, 2019

Hello Britfan , What broke on you this time ?

Clive · Jul 26, 2019

I get irritated when admirers say 'nice as a Sunday bike'. Well I commute as often as I can on my '17 CR. Up to 8500 miles in just under 2 years and I just love the whole noise, vibration thing. Although not keen on the heat when sitting crouched over it in traffic. Once you get a feeling for its handling you can start wearing those tyre edges and chucking it through traffic like a superscooter. Riding position perfect - push the bum back, toes on the pegs and tuck the knees in then grin like a loon as you take it by the scruff of the neck and have some fun.

Britfan60 · Jul 26, 2019

Britfan60 said:
Don't get me started. I've always loved riding it. Still do. Here I am....another summer....another problem. 5 out of 6. I'll brag up and down about how cool it is. Something breaks....every.....effing....Summer.

Tank bracket/Battery box.

I'd have fixed it by now, but with temps up to 99 degrees and no AC in my garage, heavy rain and a leaving for Croatia tomorrow, I didn't want my tank, battery and bolts lying around while I'm away.

Britfan60 · Jul 27, 2019

Clive said:
I get irritated when admirers say 'nice as a Sunday bike'. Well I commute as often as I can on my '17 CR. Up to 8500 miles in just under 2 years and I just love the whole noise, vibration thing. Although not keen on the heat when sitting crouched over it in traffic. Once you get a feeling for its handling you can start wearing those tyre edges and chucking it through traffic like a superscooter. Riding position perfect - push the bum back, toes on the pegs and tuck the knees in then grin like a loon as you take it by the scruff of the neck and have some fun.

It's my number 1 of 2 bikes ride. I'm on it a few times per week. Although the Triumph is loads of fun, and more reliable/easier to work on, I'd rather the more powerful bike for these fast paced NY highways and a much better ride with those Ohlins. Average speed around here is around 70mph. Don't want to do much quicker sustained speeds on the ole Bonnie.

Chris Drew · Jul 29, 2019

Starting to get used to this now - new tyres have made quite a bit to the handling and apart from some thieving git taking the top of my rear brake reservoir so far no issues. You are all correct also - rev it harder - runs out of steam when you get close to the red line but it does move when you give it a good handful. Not sure if the links below will work but here's my Norton and Honda Turbo...

David Hales · Aug 2, 2019

Every time i ride mine, i think do i want this, vibrates like hell at 70, not too comfortable, not the easiest to ride and has its quirks, then i park it up and just look at it, should we own a bike because it just looks and sounds awesome?

Welshrugby · Aug 2, 2019

Yes, I think so, as long as it is reliable

BritTwit · Aug 2, 2019

David Hales said:
....should we own a bike because it just looks and sounds awesome?

Yes, definitely.
Classic beauty is priceless.

David Hales said:
Every time i ride mine, i think do i want this, vibrates like hell at 70, not too comfortable, not the easiest to ride and has its quirks......

1. Don't ride at 70. Go faster, less vibration from motor above 4300 rpm
2. At 80-90 the wind pressure on upper torso removes much of the weight stress on your wrists, and back
3. Finally, buy a cheap, fugley, powerful, reliable UJM for actual distance riding
4. Get license plate holder for UJM with caption that reads "MY OTHER BIKE IS A NORTON"

Bernhard · Aug 2, 2019

TonyA said:
I would like to get back to discussing why people are disenchanted with the 961 . I understand unreliability and breakdowns . I read a new member not liking the experience at 80 mph.
I wonder what he was expecting ? More reserve power , smoothness or stability ? QUOTE]

I must admit I don’t like being out in the wind at 80mph on any bike- that is why I build myself a homemade fairing that kept the wind off me and I don’t need to grip the bars like a gorilla!

Beautiful but flawed?

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